Why are Oilers fans so murderous? [Note: liberal arts degrees --> higher murder rate]

[notyoueither]

It doesn't matter very much how well he plays with rookies that have already been sent back to junior or the minors. He wasn't going to make the team the way things are stacked. The Oilers need a better forward a year or two from now, and he'll get better playing in the AHL.

Meanwhile, he'd be a shoe-in for Calgary's 2nd line centre because your forwards really are that bad.

[Asher]

Originally posted by notyoueither
It doesn't matter very much how well he plays with rookies that have already been sent back to junior or the minors.

Why is it that you make excuses for your "saviour prospect" but then use the same logic to mock other forwards on the Flames? I think we know the answer.

Meanwhile, he'd be a shoe-in for Calgary's 2nd line centre because your forwards really are that bad.

Absolutely NOT. For reasons I've outlined already. Until he's NOT a defensive liability, until he's NOT a puckhog, until he IS a team player, Sutter is perfectly content in sending him packing to the minors.

Take goalies like Brent Krahn, for instance. He's good 24-years old and good enough to be a backup goaltender for most NHL teams (including Calgary), but Sutter doesn't like how he plays under pressure -- so he's in the farm league until he can. He makes no qualms of keeping kids on the farm team until they're well-rounded.

The fact that you think he doesn't understand talent needs to be nurtured is a joke -- he likely just has a better eye than you. He did spot players like Phaneuf 4 years before they got drafted into the league, and nurtured them through his network of teams (and family).

Sutter doesn't see much in Schremp, neither do I. He was a bust in the world juniors, he's been a bust in the exhibition games...real talent can burst out in such stages (eg, Phaneuf, Ovenchkin, Malkin, Crosby), while Schremp blends in.

I'll make a standing bet that in Schremp's rookie season, he won't even match Phaneuf's points from his rookie season.

[Ninot]

You two just can't stay apart, can you?

[Asher]

nye is off his rocker. He has a fundamental misunderstanding of the kind of players that the Flames like. He doesn't seem to understand that you don't need to score 10 goals a game as long as you score one more than your opponent.

And Schremp is as overrated as they get. There is a reason he's being sent down to the minors -- again -- and it's sad that most Oiler fans don't know why.

Here's Robbie Schremp, from his MySpace profile. I think this pretty much ends the discussion on how awesome or not he is.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Asher

Why is it that you make excuses for your "saviour prospect" but then use the same logic to mock other forwards on the Flames? I think we know the answer.

I don't need to make excuses. He did well last year at camp, and he's done OK this year at camp. Simply put, the Oilers don't need another young forward who needs finishing as a professional last year or this. Meanwhile, he would have been centering Iggy last year if the Flames had him.

I'll tell you how lame the Flames are when it comes to forwards. Jared Stoll. The Flames had him. They simply decided not to sign him. He opted back into the draft. We got him. That was a great move! We appreciate it.

Absolutely NOT. For reasons I've outlined already. Until he's NOT a defensive liability, until he's NOT a puckhog, until he IS a team player, Sutter is perfectly content in sending him packing to the minors.

Take goalies like Brent Krahn, for instance. He's good 24-years old and good enough to be a backup goaltender for most NHL teams (including Calgary), but Sutter doesn't like how he plays under pressure -- so he's in the farm league until he can. He makes no qualms of keeping kids on the farm team until they're well-rounded.

The fact that you think he doesn't understand talent needs to be nurtured is a joke -- he likely just has a better eye than you. He did spot players like Phaneuf 4 years before they got drafted into the league, and nurtured them through his network of teams (and family).

Sutter doesn't see much in Schremp, neither do I. He was a bust in the world juniors, he's been a bust in the exhibition games...real talent can burst out in such stages (eg, Phaneuf, Ovenchkin, Malkin), while Schremp blends in.

He didn't see much in Stoll either, did he?

Sutter is a moron who gets lucky occassionaly. Even you admit he needs his family of 56 brothers and cousins to hold his hand to spot and develop talent. Far more often he doesn't know what end of a stick is meant for shooting, and hence the Flames don't have a hope in hell of scoring much, and hense winning once Kipper is ripped away with a huge contract somewhere else.

Back into the minnow tank with the Flames then. Maybe you'll finish ahead of St Louis some year and then after another 7 years out of the playoffs you'll have accumulated enough high drafts to crawl back to respectability for another year or 2.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Ninot
You two just can't stay apart, can you?

Not when it's Oilers and Flames and we aren't polluting a thread that isn't already a cesspool.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Asher
nye is off his rocker. He has a fundamental misunderstanding of the kind of players that the Flames like. He doesn't seem to understand that you don't need to score 10 goals a game as long as you score one more than your opponent.

And Schremp is as overrated as they get. There is a reason he's being sent down to the minors -- again -- and it's sad that most Oiler fans don't know why.

Here's Robbie Schremp, from his MySpace profile. I think this pretty much ends the discussion on how awesome or not he is.

Excuse me, are you homophobic?

[Asher]

Originally posted by notyoueither
I don't need to make excuses. He did well last year at camp, and he's done OK this year at camp. Simply put, the Oilers don't need another young forward who needs finishing as a professional last year or this. Meanwhile, he would have been centering Iggy last year if the Flames had him.

You can keep telling yourself that, but it's nonsense and I'm sure you know it deep down. Calgary is a defense-first team, even for the forwards.

I'll tell you how lame the Flames are when it comes to forwards. Jared Stoll. The Flames had him. They simply decided not to sign him. He opted back into the draft. We got him. That was a great move! We appreciate it.

I make no argument about this, prior Flames management was terrible (esp. Button). It's why the Flames sucked for so many years.

He didn't see much in Stoll either, did he?

Here's some really basic hockey history for you -- Sutter wasn't GM when the Flames passed on Stoll.

Sutter is a moron who gets lucky occassionaly.

Sutter took the Flames from a bottom-feeding team to within 1 goal of the Stanley Cup in 1 season. The Flames are now widely considered one of the elite teams in the league.

You can call him a moron if you want, but people who know hockey certainly know better.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Asher

You can keep telling yourself that, but it's nonsense and I'm sure you know it deep down. Calgary is a defense-first team, even for the forwards.

And MacTavish's team isn't? The one that shut Detroit, San Jose, and Anaheim down?

Did you see Samsonov sprawling to block shots?

Sutter took the Flames from a bottom-feeding team to within 1 goal of the Stanley Cup in 1 season. The Flames are now widely considered one of the elite teams in the league.

You can call him a moron if you want, but people who know hockey certainly know better.

I think you're reading too much Eastern media.

And he certainly is a moron when he takes a team from within a goal of the SC and renders it unable to score.

[Asher]

And he certainly is a moron when he takes a team from within a goal of the SC and renders it unable to score.

Over 100 points...winner of the NW division. Hard-fought 7-game series who then went on to sweep a team that certainly COULD score in Colorado on the momentum. Not sure that makes him a moron, but it certainly does indicate you might be one.

Considering that Edmonton has a very clear-cut losing record vs Calgary since Sutter took charge, and considering how much Calgary owned Edmonton in terms of points and standings, I'd question your call of Sutter being an idiot.

Originally posted by notyoueither
And MacTavish's team isn't? The one that shut Detroit, San Jose, and Anaheim down?

Looking at Edmonton's roster, I have a very hard time how you can say it's a defense-first team.

In fact, I'd say this pretty much ends your little credibility when it comes to hockey.

Remember, here is your savior. Latent homosexuality FTW.

/me listens to the *fap fap fap* from Edmonton.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Asher

And he certainly is a moron when he takes a team from within a goal of the SC and renders it unable to score.

Over 100 points...winner of the NW division. Hard-fought 7-game series who then went on to sweep a team that certainly COULD score in Colorado on the momentum. Not sure that makes him a moron, but it certainly does indicate you might be one.

Blah, blah, blah

and couldn't score.

and lost.

and you're surprised?

Considering that Edmonton has a very clear-cut losing record vs Calgary since Sutter took charge, and considering how much Calgary owned Edmonton in terms of points and standings, I'd question your call of Sutter being an idiot.

Guess what?

Anyone with Kipper could have piled up those points. Sutter did one good thing. He brought Kipper from another team that developed him.

Looking at Edmonton's roster, I have a very hard time how you can say it's a defense-first team.

In fact, I'd say this pretty much ends your little credibility when it comes to hockey.

Defence first? No. Defence when it matters? Yes.

That's what gets you past being a one dimentional team on to winning championships.

Remember, here is your savior. Latent homosexuality FTW.

* Asher listens to the *fap fap fap* from Edmonton.

Saviour? You mean the guy that will most likely be sent down?

Are you on crack?

[Asher]

Guess what?

Anyone with Kipper could have piled up those points. Sutter did one good thing. He brought Kipper from another team that developed him.

Psssst!

Guess who was the one who developed him at the other team?

nye, come back and play when you know what the hell you're talking about.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Asher

Guess what?

Anyone with Kipper could have piled up those points. Sutter did one good thing. He brought Kipper from another team that developed him.

Psssst!

Guess who was the one who developed him at the other team?

nye, come back and play when you know what the hell you're talking about.

He wasn't with SJ when Kipper was drafted.

He wasn't Kipper's coach for his career in Europe, nor for the time in the AHL.

Sutter had Kipper as a back up for a couple of years, and one might say that if Sutter was so good he might not have missed playoffs and lost his job with SJ when he had Kipper as an option.

Talk about knowing what you're talking about.

[Asher]

Originally posted by notyoueither
He wasn't with SJ when Kipper was drafted.

He wasn't Kipper's coach for his career in Europe, nor for the time in the AHL.

Sutter had Kipper as a back up for a couple of years, and one might say that if Sutter was so good he might not have missed playoffs and lost his job with SJ when he had Kipper as an option.

Talk about knowing what you're talking about.

Sutter was with Kipper for 5 years -- and look at his stats as he's been with Kipper, they keep climbing.

I don't think giving credit to his coaches when he's 12 years old is where it's due, but it seems you want to take that route. Sutter has been working with Kiprusoff since 1997, and it wasn't until 6 years later that he became as hot as he is now. To say Sutter wasn't part of his development is simply retarded. They've been working together for 9 years, for christ sake...

As for playing Kipper as an option -- he wasn't ready for prime time. You don't have ANY idea what you're talking about, which is why you've contradicted yourself so easily.

You criticized Sutter for not knowing how to develop players, then when given an example when Sutter developed Kipper for 6 years(!) before making him a starter you pass it off as a flaw of Sutter for not playing him earlier.

Let's face it, nye -- you're a history major who builds computers for a living. You don't know more than Sutter, neither do I. Only a moron would call Sutter a moron, to be honest. You just can't argue with his results. Sutter has been "stealing" players like Kiprusoff, Huselius, and Lundmark (not many people realize he had 12 points in the 11 games since the Flames acquired him) for cheap. That's simply not something you can argue with.

For Kipper in particular -- no, Sutter wasn't the guy who drafted him. He wasn't a GM then. He did immediately recognize the talent, while San Jose's management did not. One of the first things he did as Calgary's GM was trade for Kipper for virtually nothing. What a moron, indeed...if it wasn't for Sutter, Kiprusoff would've likely languished as a 3rd string goalie.

[notyoueither]

Aww, Muffin. Have I hurt your feelings?

I don't think the losing coach at SJ had a whole lot to do with developing a player the club had before he got there and after he left. To his credit, he did recognise what Kipper could do, but too late to save his job there. That's all. No need to cry.