Xbox 360 HD-DVD drive: $170US; free software update enables 1080p movies & games...

[Asher]

We already know the limitations of the scalar built into the 360 that's currently used. Its development process is documented in Dean Takahashi's book on the 360 development.

I also understand enough about computers that if they're not using the hardware scalar, they're using a software one. I understand that software has "something to do with CPUs", in contrast to your earlier statement.

It's not me pulling things from my netherregions...

[DanS]

Let's put it this way. Currently, you would not use a general purpose chip like a CPU to do scaling. Even the CPUs in the 360 couldn't contribute much help. Rather, you're going to pass the task off to the video hardware in any event, which is built to handle these types of tasks. In this respect, the 360 doesn't have an advantage over PCs, and therefore I wouldn't expect the 360 to surpass HTPCs on scaling.

In the future, CPUs may be able to handle this task. Instead, I expect the CPUs on the 360 to do the video and audio decoding, as happens in HTPCs. The CPUs probably are powerful enough to handle that.

[Asher]

Let's put it this way. Currently, you would not use a general purpose chip like a CPU to do scaling. Even the CPUs in the 360 couldn't contribute much help. Rather, you're going to pass it the task off to the video hardware in any event, which is built to handle these types of tasks. In this respect, the 360 doesn't have an advantage over PCs, and therefore I wouldn't expect the 360 to surpass HTPCs on scaling.

But this patently isn't true. It's true that on the PCs, the CPUs are comparatively very weak in terms of vector processing so this task gets sent to hardware on the GPU.

Considering that the Xbox 360's CPU is capable of 125 GFLOPS (compared to ~8-10 for a high end PC), at a higher precision than video cards, I don't see why it wouldn't be used. Scaling algorithms as they're implemented on GPUs typically use more shortcuts at the expense of precision, like most GPU operations.

I doubt the GPU will be doing most of this work for one simple reason: since this scalar works in GAMES as well, the video card is likely to be already in 100% use. The CPU, meanwhile, has a core reserved for use by OS functions which is currently sitting mostly idle...

[DanS]

.

[Asher]

!

[Kuciwalker]

?

[Asher]

/me shrug.

[pchang]

Originally posted by rah
I wanted to delete it and ban the user.

Don't let us stop you

[DanS]

Asher: What you say at least seems possible to me at a superficial level (I have not talked with someone who has programmed this on a 360, only PCs). However, if that's what M$ had in mind, why didn't they use the CPU to scale when the 360 was released? Why spend money to develop and include a scaler chip?

[Asher]

Originally posted by DanS
Asher: What you say at least seems possible to me at a superficial level (I have not talked with someone who has programmed this on a 360, only PCs). However, if that's what M$ had in mind, why didn't they use the CPU to scale when the 360 was released? Why spend money to include a scaler chip?

Rush to market, available software...

The CPU was new and software complex. The video scalar chip was already available from the WebTV guys.

[DanS]

OK, seems possible. Let's wait and see the details.

[Elok]

Originally posted by rah
Darn, thought this was your typical adbot post.
I wanted to delete it and ban the user.

This does look interesting though.

Adbot, Asherbot, what's it matter?

[Verto]

Looks like Sony is fux0r3d.

[Dis]

Originally posted by rah
Darn, thought this was your typical adbot post.
I wanted to delete it and ban the user.

This does look interesting though.

my first thought as well. Though I still want to delete it and ban the user. . only kidding.

[Nostromo]

It seems you'll need VGA to enjoy 1080p goodness...

http://www.engadgethd.com/2006/09/21/xbox-360-hd-dvd-playback-maximum-1080i-via-component-1080p-vga/

We still don't know the US price or launch date, but we've got a bit more specifics on how the Xbox 360 HD DVD player add-on will work when it hits store shelves later this year thanks to a post by Microsoft insider Amir M. on AVS Forum. When Microsoft revealed yesterday it will support 1080p HD DVD and 1080p DVD upconversion we were surprised because it's commonly accepted that the CSS (DVD) and AACS (HD DVD & Blu-ray) copyright provisions wouldn't allow that (although some manufacturers have looked the other way before) via unprotected analog connections. We were right, sort of. Even after the software upgrade this fall, via component cables, the Xbox 360 will still only upconvert DVDs to 480p, and will play HD DVD movies at a maximum resolution of 1080i. To get 1080p output for movies, you must use a VGA cable, which is not subject to the same copyright restrictions. This just means the Xbox 360 is just like every other HD DVD and Blu-ray player on the market, but you wouldn't know that by reading Microsoft's press releases yesterday. If you ran out and bought a 1080p HDTV yesterday don't return it just yet, you should be able to get equal picture quality to 1080p if your TV processes the incoming signal correctly, and if it supports 1080p via component you can still play upconverted and native-1080p games . We're still waiting to hear exactly how HD DVD's advanced audio capabilities will be handled by the 360 and oh yeah...a US price, please Microsoft?.

Update: Added list of supported resolutions after the break.

To break it all down what you will get from the Xbox 360 after this fall's software update:

VGA:

* HD DVD - 1080p resolution and all others
* DVD - Upscaled as high as 1080p resolution and all others
* Games - 720p games upscaled to 1080p, also supports native-1080p games in the future

Component:

* HD DVD - 1080i resolution maximum, limited by AACS
* DVD - Upscaled to 480p maximum, limited by CSS
* Games - 720p games upscaled to 1080p, also supports native-1080p games in the future