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  • #1

    Xbox 360 HD-DVD drive: $170US; free software update enables 1080p movies & games...

    MS just made it official this morning. Huge surprise, both the cheapness of the drive and the 1080p.

    It's all over the 'net now.

    Microsoft will announce tomorrow (late tonight for those of you in saner time zones) that the Xbox 360 HD DVD player attachment will ship to its wee Japanese fanbase just in time for the holidays. Priced at a very reasonable 19800 yen (20790 yen with tax), my source was eager to mention its 1080p capabilities and Windows XP Media Center Edition compatability. Woo.

    For those of you too lazy to type in "19800 japanese yen in US dollars", or your currency of choice, that's about 168 bucks, otherwise known as "cheap". As we all know, pricing in dollars to yen to euros to whatever is not created equal, so speculating other regional prices on current exchange rates doesn't always tell the full pricing strategy story.

    We'll see what Microsoft has to say about worldwide release dates and cost at Barcelona, but it seems cheap ass 1080p-ers may have something to shout about. We'll follow up with more details following Microsoft's press event later today.


    There is a chip on the 360 that was inactive until the upcoming Fall software update, likely because the drivers weren't stable. When the 360 launched, a Japanese MS exec made a comment about "secret features, that won't be revealed until a year after launch when a download from Xbox Live will enable these 'secret powers'.".

    Here is the mystery chip that's likely to be the new output chip:


    AnandTech tried to explain it a while ago with guesses: http://www.anandtech.com/systems/sho...spx?i=2611&p=3
    Originally we assumed the chip below was a TV encoder, but we've since found out that the TV encoder on ATI's Xenos GPU is identical to what is on the ATI Radeon X1000 series of PC graphics cards - meaning the Xbox 360's TV encoder is located on the Xenos GPU itself and makes use of ATI's Xilleon display engine.



    If it isn't the TV encoder, then what is this mystery chip? We haven't been able to find the physical interface for the Ethernet port, so it is possible that the 100Mbit PHY is located within this chip, as well as the audio codec, both of which would make sense given its location on the motherboard (within close proximity to the AV cable connector). In addition to those two options, it is possible that this chip may house whatever DRM technology is used in the Xbox 360.


    Makes sense now...
    "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
    Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "
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  • #2
    It will also upscale existing DVDs to 1080p(!), that's a high-end DVD feature...

    I had a chance to talk to Shane Kim, who recently named the corporate vice president of Microsoft Game Studios, about the day's announcements over in Tokyo.

    If you missed the news check out the full press release on the jump, but in a nutshell Microsoft announced the Japan price and date for the HD-DVD add-on for the Xbox 360. More importantly, they announced that the fall software update for the console will allow the console to output game and movie content in 1080p resolution. That's right I said movies and games.

    The interview was exactly 10 minutes long, so naturally I spent nine minutes trying to figure out just how a console with no HDMI out would gain 1080p output with a software update.

    Kim was clear that the console could support true 1080p out.

    "If it is running at 720p we will up-res it to 1080p, (interesting... everything if you set it for 1080p?) if it it's already 1080p then we can display it in 1080p," he said. " This is a great example of our console's ability and the great advantage of being a software company."

    Kim said that while the console will soon support 1080p out, it will not have an HDMI out.

    "We have the ability to output either through VGA or component. We have no HDMI announcement now," he said. "We do have the capability to deliver the software and, if needed, the hardware."

    I pointed out that some movie studios have said they will use HDMI output as a form of copy protection and Kim acknowledged that if a studio uses that scheme then HDMI will indeed be required.

    While Kim expects that some third-party game developers will create 1080p games, he said that 720p will likely remain the norm.

    "We believe 720p is the sweet-spot for high definition," he said, adding that Microsoft Game Studio titles will, for now, continue to be created at 720p.

    While the release of a low-cost HD-DVD player for the 360 could help make the console more competitive against Sony's upcoming PS3, Kim things the main development that could help jumpstart 360 sales in Japan are game titles.

    Kim said that Microsoft plans to have 110 titles available for the 360 by the end of the year in Japan and 160 in North America.

    "It's all going to be about the content and how customers value the content," he said.

    Hit the jump for the official press release with details on new Live games, the Pac-Man World Championships, Xbox 360's HD-DVD player, some new titles and XNA support in Japan.
    "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
    Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

    Comment

    • #3
      Upscaling

      "1080p" over analog
      THEY!!111 OMG WTF LOL LET DA NOMADS AND TEH S3D3NTARY PEOPLA BOTH MAEK BITER AXP3REINCES
      AND TEH GRAAT SINS OF THERE [DOCTRINAL] INOVATIONS BQU3ATH3D SMAL
      AND!!1!11!!! LOL JUST IN CAES A DISPUTANT CALS U 2 DISPUT3 ABOUT THEYRE CLAMES
      DO NOT THAN DISPUT3 ON THEM 3XCAPT BY WAY OF AN 3XTARNAL DISPUTA!!!!11!! WTF

      Comment

      • #4
        Originally posted by LordShiva
        Upscaling

        "1080p" over analog
        Upscaling is awesome for standard DVD content.

        As someone with a 1080p TV, I can safely say I can see no difference between HDMI and Component -- at least with the current HDMI 1.2. HDMI has copy protection, that's the only difference.
        "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
        Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

        Comment

        • #5
          Upscaling is no big deal. I bet that most of our displays will scale as well as the XBox 360.

          The HD-DVD drive is interesting.
          I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

          Comment

          • #6
            Upscaling of SD DVDs is awesome. Upscaling by a $170 device isn't. Heck, even top-of-the-line upscaling DVD players can't compare with an HTPC running ffdshow and avisynth.
            THEY!!111 OMG WTF LOL LET DA NOMADS AND TEH S3D3NTARY PEOPLA BOTH MAEK BITER AXP3REINCES
            AND TEH GRAAT SINS OF THERE [DOCTRINAL] INOVATIONS BQU3ATH3D SMAL
            AND!!1!11!!! LOL JUST IN CAES A DISPUTANT CALS U 2 DISPUT3 ABOUT THEYRE CLAMES
            DO NOT THAN DISPUT3 ON THEM 3XCAPT BY WAY OF AN 3XTARNAL DISPUTA!!!!11!! WTF

            Comment

            • #7
              Err...where do you think the upscaling occurs?

              All processing is done by the tri-core 3.2GHz CPUs with help from ATI's Xenos. I'm willing to bet it's way better than even what you get with ffdshow on a HTPC.

              The HD-DVD drive for the Xbox 360 is essentially a laptop HD-DVD drive with a USB bridge to stream all data to the 360 for processing and display. That's why it's so cheap compared to standalone HD-DVD players -- the most expensive components (the processing) are already in the 360.
              "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
              Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

              Comment

              • #8
                Originally posted by Asher
                All processing is done by the tri-core 3.2GHz CPUs with help from ATI's Xenos. I'm willing to bet it's way better than even what you get with ffdshow on a HTPC.
                I'll take that bet. The CPUs have nothing to do with scaling.
                I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

                Comment

                • #9
                  Originally posted by DanS
                  I'll take that bet.
                  THEY!!111 OMG WTF LOL LET DA NOMADS AND TEH S3D3NTARY PEOPLA BOTH MAEK BITER AXP3REINCES
                  AND TEH GRAAT SINS OF THERE [DOCTRINAL] INOVATIONS BQU3ATH3D SMAL
                  AND!!1!11!!! LOL JUST IN CAES A DISPUTANT CALS U 2 DISPUT3 ABOUT THEYRE CLAMES
                  DO NOT THAN DISPUT3 ON THEM 3XCAPT BY WAY OF AN 3XTARNAL DISPUTA!!!!11!! WTF

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    Originally posted by DanS
                    I'll take that bet. The CPUs have nothing to do with scaling.
                    The more horsepower you've got the more advanced algorithms you can implement. It's a conjunction of GPU + CPU, and I'm willing to bet the universal shaders on the GPU will help quite a bit, too.

                    I don't think you understand how scaling algorithms work, or you seem to be stuck in the ASIC video scalar era. It can be done on the CPU, GPU, or both.
                    "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                    Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      MS has confirmed the 19,800 yen pricepoint, Nov 17th date (for Japan), and said it'll also include the Xbox 360 universal remote:

                      "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                      Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Darn, thought this was your typical adbot post.
                        I wanted to delete it and ban the user.

                        This does look interesting though.
                        It's almost as if all his overconfident, absolutist assertions were spoonfed to him by a trusted website or subreddit. Sheeple
                        RIP Tony Bogey & Baron O

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Asher

                          The more horsepower you've got the more advanced algorithms you can implement. It's a conjunction of GPU + CPU, and I'm willing to bet the universal shaders on the GPU will help quite a bit, too.

                          I don't think you understand how scaling algorithms work, or you seem to be stuck in the ASIC video scalar era. It can be done on the CPU, GPU, or both.
                          On an HTPC, you just pass the video card a progressive-scan overlay. The video card does the rest with regard to timing and scaling. There is no load on the CPU. The scaling done by modern video cards is very high quality.

                          The XBox 360 might have a separate chip for scaling, as standalone DVD players do. But as these things go, M$ would be using the same scaling chip as all of the display devices on the market, and, as such would offer no advantage in comparison.
                          I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            k.

                            Dan, do you realize the 360 is not a Windows PC?

                            Do you realize that Xenos is a custom GPU without standard PC DirectX features such as the progressive-scan overlay?

                            The 360 has a scaling chip, designed by their WebTV group that is currently being used. It only supports up to 1080i. This is why this is big news, they are obviously doing software scaling using the CPU/GPU in conjunction with the "mystery" chip for A/V output.

                            Do you follow?
                            "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                            Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              It's evident that you don't know what they're doing yet and are just pulling the details out of your netherregions.
                              I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891

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