The Denial Industry

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by VJ
if whaleboy posted it, it's probably wrong

Yup, it's all a gov conspiracy

A little tidbit from one of the documents :

However, our perception is that this group has a self-reinforcing feedback mechanism and, moreover, the work has been sufficiently politicized that they can hardly reassess their public positions without losing credibility.

[RGBVideo]

please note that I have no idea whatsoever of what he posted

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Odin
I bet PA will dig up some made up crap by s Big Oil lackey that "proves" the stuff posted by Wjaleboy "wrong."

hmmm I am losing track of who is on what side here but I looked at Whaleboy's links and the Wegman report one seems to dispute global warming so I don't know why anyone in BIG OIL would want to refute it

. . .Mann's assessments that the decade of the 1990s was the hottest decade of the millenium and that 1998 was the hottest year of the millenium cannot be supported by his analysis

Thats the conclusion. Now I am probably missing some sarcasm or something but I figure that a pro-development person would adopt that Wegman report cited by Whaleboy

[Flubber]

Originally posted by BlackCat




A little tidbit from one of the documents :

I read that tidbit and I don't think its unusual for groups to exhibit groupthink whereby everyone has their analysis supported and reinforced by everyone else thinking the same way.

Now the key question is whether the group think alike because they are right.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by Flubber



hmmm I am losing track of who is on what side here but I looked at Whaleboy's links and the Wegman report one seems to dispute global warming so I don't know why anyone in BIG OIL would want to refute it

Actually no it doesn't. And for the record almost no one is arguing global warming doesn't exist. What is being argued is the extent if any that mans activities has on global wamring. The Mann report showed (incorrectly and definitvely) that the 20th century became the hottest century for 2000 years erasing a commonly held scientific view that the middle ages were indeed warmer. If that were the case (Existance of mideval warming periods) long cyclical trends MIGHT be a primary cause for the recent 19th & 20th century warming coming off of a circa 1500-1800 little ice age. The arguement that was proposed was since the 20th century was the warmest ,then it had to be due to something unusual hence it must have been man made, hence it must have been due to increases in CO2 levels. (Those are a lot of hences and suppositions even if the 20th century temperatures were found to be warmest on record for 2000 years.)

The fact that Manns work has been by and large refuted using proper statistical treatment of the raw data (as seen in the Wegman report and prior to that the now substantiated work of Mcintyre and McKittrick) is not necessarily a stake in the heart of either arguements for or against man made global warming causation but it does seriously weaken the arguement for the pro man made warmers.

What it should show more than anything else though is that proper scrutiny is lacking especially when reports of this nature are being used as the focal point for public policy. The advice of the Wegman report to have reports of this nature that enter into the political sphere to go through independent statistical evaluation and rigor seems prudent and in keeping with good science.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by Odin
I bet PA will dig up some made up crap by s Big Oil lackey that "proves" the stuff posted by Wjaleboy "wrong."

Of course you realize that half of the reports in the Whaleboy listed links reinforce what PA was talking about namely that the 20th century most likely was not the warmest on record and more to the point the hack job Mann did in setting that proposal forward.

[Solly]

Ogie, saved me a lot of typing

Hope you're feeling better Whaleboy, now you know it's less likely the planet is headed for catastrophe.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe


Actually no it doesn't. And for the record almost no one is arguing global warming doesn't exist. What is being argued is the extent if any that mans activities has on global wamring. The Mann report showed (incorrectly and definitvely) that the 20th century became the hottest century for 2000 years erasing a commonly held scientific view that the middle ages were indeed warmer. If that were the case (Existance of mideval warming periods) long cyclical trends MIGHT be a primary cause for the recent 19th & 20th century warming coming off of a circa 1500-1800 little ice age. The arguement that was proposed was since the 20th century was the warmest ,then it had to be due to something unusual hence it must have been man made, hence it must have been due to increases in CO2 levels. (Those are a lot of hences and suppositions even if the 20th century temperatures were found to be warmest on record for 2000 years.)

The fact that Manns work has been by and large refuted using proper statistical treatment of the raw data (as seen in the Wegman report and prior to that the now substantiated work of Mcintyre and McKittrick) is not necessarily a stake in the heart of either arguements for or against man made global warming causation but it does seriously weaken the arguement for the pro man made warmers.

What it should show more than anything else though is that proper scrutiny is lacking especially when reports of this nature are being used as the focal point for public policy. The advice of the Wegman report to have reports of this nature that enter into the political sphere to go through independent statistical evaluation and rigor seems prudent and in keeping with good science.

Thanks ogie-- you said better and more clearly what I tried to say too hurriedly

The bottom line is that some of the key science in support of man-caused global warming is being questioned. the result is that some betetr science is needed

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe


Of course you realize that half of the reports in the Whaleboy listed links reinforce what PA was talking about namely that the 20th century most likely was not the warmest on record and more to the point the hack job Mann did in setting that proposal forward.

Exactly my earlier point.


Despite this I don't believe that our current levels of emissions are desirable and finding ways to reduce man caused greenhouse gas emissions are desirable. You can see my thread on CO2 injection to see one small measure that can help.

[snoopy369]

I think the fact that people find it 'troubling' that groups who espouse a belief that 'big oil' or whatever supports, take money or associate with 'big oil'. Are you asking groups of people who support ideas that 'big oil' would support to NOT take money that's freely given?

For that matter, of course they're going to found their own groups ... that's called the freedom of the press. It's up to us to decide who we believe. If you believe someone who's spouting nonsense, then it's your fault

[Whaleboy]

Of course you realize that half of the reports in the Whaleboy listed links reinforce what PA was talking about namely that the 20th century most likely was not the warmest on record and more to the point the hack job Mann did in setting that proposal forward.

Ogie, saved me a lot of typing

Looks like Flubber saved me some typing too

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by Flubber



Exactly my earlier point.


Despite this I don't believe that our current levels of emissions are desirable and finding ways to reduce man caused greenhouse gas emissions are desirable. You can see my thread on CO2 injection to see one small measure that can help.

Heck if you really want to reduce CO2 seed the pacific ocean with iron filings. Them little critters in the south pacific are iron starved. A little iron fertilization would make the plankton go ape ****.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe


Heck if you really want to reduce CO2 seed the pacific ocean with iron filings. Them little critters in the south pacific are iron starved. A little iron fertilization would make the plankton go ape ****.

Huh-- My knowledge of plankton is a bit sketchy. Are you saying there is an easy and cheap way to reduce C02 emissions?

[Berzerker]

Berz and PA will hate this article

Hate to break it to ya, but the fact special interests fund slanted research aint news. Have you been sleeping as the Bushies got us into Iraq using slanted research funded by our taxes?

And when y'all can explain why man didn't create previous warming periods, I'll go with the obvious answer - the planet cycles between warm and cold; and trust me, it dont get better when its cold.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Berzerker
And when y'all can explain why man didn't create previous warming periods, I'll go with the obvious answer - the planet cycles between warm and cold; and trust me, it dont get better when its cold.

So by that logic, because people die naturally, there logically is no such thing as murder.