Pope angers muslims

[Robert]

Ah, because Christian wrongs aren't as wrong as Muslim wrongs?

No, christian wrongs are as wrong as muslim wrongs.
I thought I made that clear.
But it can't be compared since violence comes from the core of Islam (Quran, Muhammed) while Christian violence (which is really wrong and I'm really sorry for it) doesn't come from it's core or it's founder. I hope you can still see those differences despite your hate against christianity.

If an Orthodox Serb slits the throat of a Bosnian Muslim or Catholic Croat then somehow that is not as bad as if a Bosnian Muslim did the same to a Catholic Croat or Orthodox Serb ?

Bizarro world logic.

For sure Bizarro since I DEFENITELY didn't say that. If you're going to alter my words, fine, but please don't quote me.

Which is undoubtedly exactly what many peace-loving non-violent Muslims would and do say about Muslims who use violence to achieve their aims and how they stand in relation to Islam.

They may say that but that doesn't change the fact that Muhammed started Islam with violence and war and that the Quran has very very questionable passages regarding violence and non-muslims, where the New Testament doesn't have these passages.

How do the actions of SOME Muslims equate with the faith or actions of all Muslims ?

They do not equate with the actions of all muslims, which I have stated CLEARLY.
It does equate with the Quran and Muhammed though. Did I already state clearly that Muhammed was a warmonger himself? Can you comment on that instead of altering my quotes?

Do we judge all Christians and the whole of Christianity by the violence used by some Christians to effect a desired outcome?

I do not judge all muslims.
I do judge the muslim faith indeed because I think it's a violent faith in it's core. Can you comment on that? Do you deny that the foundation of Islam is in war and violence?

"I denounce you, Anti-Christ!"

said by the 'Reverend' Ian Paisley, Moderator of the Free Presbyterian Church of Ulster during a visit by Pope John Paul II to the European Parliament in 1988.

Do you not understand me?
What you quote is a quote from a christian, not from the core of christianity. You don't quote Jesus or the New Testament (Paul, Peter, John, Jacob, ie)
I do not say that christians have done terrible things (for which I'm once again very sorry). I just say that you can't blame christianity for the faults made by it's members. If someone kills in the name of democracy you cannot blame democracy for that.

Randall Terry, Christian anti-abortionist:

Again, a christian, not the core of christianity.
You really don't understand it, do you?

[Robert]

Btw, Cybershy: You're from Delft!

Yup, it's a nice city!
A little bit like Amsterdam, but smaller and without the huge drugs/prostitution problems, and of course without the arrogance

[C0ckney]

Originally posted by Heresson
I think the apology was a mistake. Muslims should learn that others have right to criticise them. Here, they actually refused the right of leader of a souvereign state, and the biggest denomination in the world, to quote someone scepticall of islam

.....

Pope's apology will only cause muslims to stay in their "don't you dare criticise Muhammad" attitude.
We're not living under shari'ah, do we?

At least not yet. I don't want pope to bow to some radical muslims that are unable to read his speach.

QFT

it's ridiculous that the pope can't say that violence cannot be justified in the name of religion and use a historical quote while making this point.

i'm fed up with western 'leaders' constantly bending over backwards to avoid offending over-sensitive muslims.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by CyberShy

Ah, because Christian wrongs aren't as wrong as Muslim wrongs?

I hope you can still see those differences despite your hate against christianity.

I don't 'hate' Christianity. Stick to what I actually say, not what you think I do or say.

13 ¶ And the Jews' passover Ex. 12.1-27 was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem,

14 and found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting:

15 and when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;

16 and said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house a house of merchandise.

17 And his disciples remembered that it was written, The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.

The Gospel According To St John.

But it can't be compared since violence comes from the core of Islam (Quran, Muhammed) while Christian violence (which is really wrong and I'm really sorry for it) doesn't come from it's core or it's founder.

So with that scourge of small cords do you think he just sort of showed it to the money lenders ?

Scared them a bit ?

It says he DROVE them out with it.

Well we all get angry occasionally don't we ?

[SlowwHand]

And now some Muslims are talking war? With who? I didn't read...just because. With Vatican City? Or against all Catholics?

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by molly bloom


I don't 'hate' Christianity. Stick to what I actually say, not what you think I do or say.

You seem to for most observers.

JM

[Velociryx]

Well....you know Sloww...all the other Jihads were starting to get old hat....a new one was needed, and you have to admit, that'd be the mother of all Jihads, right?

This week's Jihad.



-=Vel=-

[Robert]

Stick to what I actually say, not what you think I do or say.

It's kewl that you say that, after I replied to a post in which you putted like 100 things into my mouth
Glad that you don't hate christianity though!

So with that scourge of small cords do you think he just sort of showed it to the money lenders ?

He most probably used it for the animals on the temple square.
Jesus drove people from the temple square, the most holy place for him. He didn't kill any of them, just drove them away. He was pretty angry indeed but as far as I can see did he not harm any human being.

It's really funny that you base your entire argumentation on this small small small small thing, Jesus drove some people from the temple square. Didn't kill anybody, didn't harm anybody (except some beasts perhaps slightly) and you compare that to what Muhammed did, who killed many and forced many people to believe him.

You're really good at making comparisions!
Why don't you answer to the questions I raised? Or is this only one way and do I only have to answer your questions? You're a muslim by any change? You do sound like one :P

[Winston]

Originally posted by Velociryx
Well....you know Sloww...all the other Jihads were starting to get old hat....a new one was needed, and you have to admit, that'd be the mother of all Jihads, right?

This week's Jihad.

Jihad their chance already, and they blew it.

[Velociryx]

Here's a snippet from the article about the latest (from CNN.com)

....The Basra demonstration came as an al Qaeda linked militant group vowed a war against the "worshippers of the cross" in response to the pope's speech.

"We tell the worshipper of the cross (the Pope) that you and the West will be defeated, as is the case in Iraq, Afghanistan, Chechnya," said an Internet statement by the Mujahideen Shura Council, an umbrella group led by Iraq's branch of al Qaeda, according to the Reuters news agency.

"We shall break the cross and spill the wine. ... God will (help) Muslims to conquer Rome. ... God enable us to slit their throats, and make their money and descendants the bounty of the mujahideen," said the statement.

On Sunday the pope said he was "deeply sorry" for the reaction to comments he made last week when he quoted from a 14th-century emperor regarding Muslims.

***

Wow....all this for some comments made about a quote from six centuries and change ago. Imagine the outrage if he'd used something more current!

-=Vel=-

[SlowwHand]

Put 'em up, put 'em up. We want to fight, and we're not particular on who it is.

Like a mirror image of the French.

[Arrian]

Zealots

I'm not gonna touch the whole Christianity > Islam thing with a ten foot pole.

-Arrian

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by CyberShy


They may say that but that doesn't change the fact that Muhammed started Islam with violence and war and that the Quran has very very questionable passages regarding violence and non-muslims, where the New Testament doesn't have these passages.

The New Testament doesn't have any passages relating to violent acts, or the justification for violent acts ?


The Book of Revelation:

3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.


4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.


5 And to them it was given that they should not kill them, but that they should be tormented five months: and their torment was as the torment of a scorpion, when he striketh a man.


6 And in those days shall men seek death, and shall not find it; and shall desire to die, and death shall flee from them.

The angels:

15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

Well that seems fairly lurid, violent and clear.

They do not equate with the actions of all muslims, which I have stated CLEARLY.

You have ? You talk about, and I quote:

...the muslims... They were insulted .... And they were insulted.... If you ask a muslim about the muslim wrongs they only want to come with all kinds of excuses. I have only heard very few muslims saying sorry for the terrorist attacks.

Why should Muslims have to apologize for the actions of other Muslims ? Do you apologize for what other Dutch people do ?

Well, I didn't do the crusades as well but I'm still very very very sorry and ashamed for it.

Yes, I'm familiar with your opinions on the Catholic Church....

...christian wrongs can't be compared to muslim wrongs.

Uh huh.

No, christian wrongs are as wrong as muslim wrongs.
I thought I made that clear.

? Very clear now, yes....

I hope we can open our eyes for that and stop the politicall correct BS.

It has precious little to do with ' political correctness'. Funny how that phrase gets dragged in even when it's inappropriate.

Muslims assert that Islam is a religion of peace.

Christians assert that Christianity is a religion of peace.

Cybershy (a Christian) would have us believe that he knows the real truth and meaning of Christianity, that it is indeed a religion of peace, and that Islam is not a religion of peace.

Well I'm sure I could find a devout Muslim who would say the same as you, but in reverse, and feel that they had just as much justification.

It (the New Testament) even tells christians that they should respect differences of opinion.

Muslims, you say, and the Qu'ran and Muhammad are intolerant of differing opinions. What does Jesus say about those who don't want Christianity preached in their towns ?

14 And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words, when ye depart out of that house or city, shake off the dust of your feet.


15 Verily I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.

Matthew 10:14-15


I think most of us recall what supposedly happened to Sodom and Gomorrah, don't we ? That doesn't seem to me to be 'tolerance' of differing opinions.

...they are dangerous for political power is the core of Islam

It is ? Could you show us that formula in the Qu'ran or the Hadith ?

[Jon Miller]

Actions of God versus actions of man. You have a lot of verses, but little understanding.

Jon Miller

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Jon Miller


You seem to for most observers.

JM

You are the spokesperson for 'most' observers are you ?

16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.

The Second Book of Moses, Called Exodus