"America's Mayor" in some deep, deep doo-doo...

[Ming]

Sikander and DRoseDARs

Would you two just chill...

[Donegeal]

Re: "America's Mayor" in some deep, deep doo-doo...

Ray Nagan?

[DanS]

I am very sympathetic to the city gov't getting people back in the area as soon as possible. This news report is written in an apalling tone.

You have to live. What are they going to do? Evacuate to South Carolina? (Thanks Ogie.)

[mactbone]

When your house is fumigated, do you stay at home? You have to live. What are they going to do? Evacuate to South Carolina?

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
Twits. By all means the situation should have been allowed to fester and no cleanup done whatsoever because oooh my freakin lord there might be some smoke that might make it hard to breathe. Wimps the lot of them.

You must have a nice, white-color job that never puts you in contact with hazardous materials. What should have been done was to make sure workers had proper respirators, environmental suits if needed, and that adequeate dust control, washdown, and containment procedures were in place as needed for each specific site. In other words, safety and sound construction, demolition and hazmat containment practices should have dictated the pace, not property owner's greed.

[Jon Miller]

Allowing people back isn't such a big deal. But did they tell everyone (loudly and explicitly) that is was dangerous to go back?

What this has definitely done is allowed people to sue the state about health problems.

JM

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by DanS
I am very sympathetic to the city gov't getting people back in the area as soon as possible. This news report is written in an apalling tone.

You have to live. What are they going to do? Evacuate to South Carolina? (Thanks Ogie.)

Absolutely - sugar coat the risks, take shortcuts on the proper cleanup procedures, and get the serfs back into production. If a few thousand get seriously ill and many of those die prematurely, it's no big deal - there's a war on. How would you rationalize it if your kid was now chronically sick, or if you or your spouse was a construction/demolition worker now unable to work due to chronic respiratory conditions? Ahh, but they're expendible blue collar types, and it's the economy as an abstract entity that matters.

All the grist the mill requires, eh?

[DanS]

I think you're being very uncharitable to my position, but we shouldn't be so squeamish as to fail to note that a large portion of global business goes through that area. Many millions of livelihoods are at stake.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by MichaeltheGreat


Absolutely - sugar coat the risks, take shortcuts on the proper cleanup procedures, and get the serfs back into production. If a few thousand get seriously ill and many of those die prematurely, it's no big deal - there's a war on. How would you rationalize it if your kid was now chronically sick, or if you or your spouse was a construction/demolition worker now unable to work due to chronic respiratory conditions? Ahh, but they're expendible blue collar types, and it's the economy as an abstract entity that matters.

All the grist the mill requires, eh?

At least in the quote in the OP, the discussion is about opening up building that were not directly damaged, for use by white collar workers, including professionals, NOT about the proper procedures for the clean up of ground zero itself.

Now i dont know if mistakes were made, or laws broken, but I dont think this is another bourgeois vs blue collars thing.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by DanS
I think you're being very uncharitable to my position, but we shouldn't be so squeamish as to fail to note that a large portion of global business goes through that area. Many millions of livelihoods are at stake.

And a large part of that global business had and has (probably far better, now) disaster recovery plans in place, altnerate site locations for workers and IT infrastructure, etc.

What would have been at stake from the city's and property owner's perspective is that the longer cleanup and restored access took, the greater chance that businesses would relocate elsewhere.

[DanS]

There was a lot at stake beyond that, even from the city's and property owner's perspective.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


At least in the quote in the OP, the discussion is about opening up building that were not directly damaged, for use by white collar workers, including professionals, NOT about the proper procedures for the clean up of ground zero itself.

Now i dont know if mistakes were made, or laws broken, but I dont think this is another bourgeois vs blue collars thing.

Lack of direct structural damage has no bearing on coating and surface exposure to toxic and other hazardous materials on the buildings and their surroundings, or on continuous exposure in the local air to a number of things, including contaminants kicked up and recirculated by the nearby cleanup, demolition and removal activity.

[SlowwHand]

Keep people out of the area, and you don't just put a dent in corporate America. What about "the little guy" that runs the deli? The dry cleaner? On and on.

Again, all on a handful of maybe's.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Keep people out of the area, and you don't just put a dent in corporate America. What about "the little guy" that runs the deli? The dry cleaner? On and on.

WTF are we paying taxes for? The point isn't "keeping people out of the area" - it's keeping people out of specific areas until it's safe to let them back in. How does "the little guy" running the deli benefit if he's too sick coughing his lungs out to run the deli any more?

Again, all on a handful of maybe's.

Not a handful of maybe's at all. The air quality and hazmat hazards of fires and construction demolition are well known. It's not like nothing has ever burned down before, or no planes have ever crashed before, or no buildings have ever been brought down. This is basic environmental engineering, hazardous materials science and construction and demolition planning. The only difference from the scale is that there's more stuff over a bigger area, but there are no unknowns in terms of the materials, and economic convenience doesn't change the safe exposure level to any given material.

[MichaeltheGreat]

Originally posted by DanS
There was a lot at stake beyond that, even from the city's and property owner's perspective.

How many lives (dead or disabled) was it worth?

There's always "a lot at stake" - but aren't you a big fan of globalization, and how it's good for us to be exporting jobs to India?