Is depression a disease? Is it more prevalent today?

[Lorizael]

I'm sorry, I know this was four pages ago, but I can't just let this go by unchecked.

Originally posted by NeOmega
A caveman did not shut down, and get taken care of by his peers for a couple of years. How ridiculous. They would have called it "lazy", and nobody would have stood for it.

W&I. From what orafice? Done studies on the cavemen? Are you an anthropologist? Any reason why you would possess this wonderful gem of a fact?

[Darius871]

Originally posted by Spiffor

From my impression of Mali (one of the poorest countries in the world, but also one where people don't seem depressed), I would imagine there aren't many suicides there because their society is built in such a way that everybody has a purpose and a role in life.

IMO, western individualism strongly contributes to feelings of powerlessness, as we're in a society that:
1. Lets everybody pick their own path. Those who don't manage to pick a clear meaning to their lives are more likely to feel loss.
2. Emphasises achievement and overachievement, meaning that ordinary people will more often feel that they suck.

Pretty much everybody knows these feelings at some point or another in the west (and in some circumstances, they can create depression), while it might be different in many third-world countries.

Originally posted by Aivo½so
Spiffor:

I think that a major cause of depression in the West is that people internalize values that work against them.

Good posts, I was expecting a response about the very nature of Western life and frankly I can't think of a counterargument. It could well be that lack of meaning is more depressing than actual hardship/stress.

Nonetheless, your viewpoint still points to sociocultural and psychogenic causes, not a physiological one.

[MRT144]

Originally posted by reds4ever
HAPPINESS AROUND THE WORLD
# The happiest
Nigeria
Mexico
Venezuela
El Salvador
Puerto Rico
# The least happy
Russia
Armenia
Romania
Source: New Scientist

Easy. It's nicer living in a warm country. Did they pay someone to come up with that?

russians are unhappy because they are on the same list as armenia and romania.

[Ecthy]

They're also unhappy because they're in Russia.

[Lorizael]

Originally posted by Darius871
Good posts, I was expecting a response about the very nature of Western life and frankly I can't think of a counterargument. It could well be that lack of meaning is more depressing than actual hardship/stress.

Nonetheless, your viewpoint still points to sociocultural and psychogenic causes, not a physiological one.

But those causes can still bring about a physiological response, and that response must be treated, especially if it can be life threatening.

If society or genetics or the culture you live in morphs your biology in such a way that you start producing chemicals that make you want to kill yourself, you may want to treat those ultimate causes, but you have to get rid of the suicide causing chemicals first; they are of more immediate concern.

This is where drugs help.

[lord of the mark]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by NeOmega

A caveman did not shut down, and get taken care of by his peers for a couple of years. How ridiculous. They would have called it "lazy", and nobody would have stood for it.

How the f**k do you know that? From what I understand thats precisely what happens in "primitive cultures" today, and similar behavior has been observed in animals.

I love these "probablies", and like Darius asked, why do 1st world countries haev higher rates of depression?

Why do first world countries have higher rates of heart disease?

And I see a couple of your began medication as children. I think it's an outrage to be medicted as a child.... well, considering giving a kid coke at 14 or marijuana is an outrage.

yeah, cause teen suicide is such a lovely thing.


[q]Now, when you see your own kids becoming distant, or seemingly depressed, you'll haul them over to Dr. Prozac.[q/]

If youve read what I said, its very clear i dont think meds alone are the answer.

I mean, if as an adult, you choose to medicate with prozac or zolaft or tweek or coke or weed, I don't care, that is your choice.... they are all dagerous, and I assure you, lawsuits are on the way in a couple of decades, both for health and mental effects of these happy pills.

If you use the existence of law suits to determine what activites are dangerous, youd never get out of bed.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by NeOmega


Because lack of seratonin is not the only indicator of depression.


If it were, they could just do a test, and say, yup low on seratonin, you have depression!! No more "do you cry more than once a week? Y N" "do you feel your life is meaningless? Y N"


Everyone who is low on seratonin does not suffer from depression. Yet everyone who is low on insulin suffers from diabetes.

first of all its not clear that its LACK of Seratonin, but the way the synapses handle the seratonin.

The brain is complex, and its NOT easy finding a way to make a diagnosis with physical means.

I guess some people think cancer, etc didnt exist until there were xrays, etc.

[Lorizael]

You're not getting the point, LOTM. Cancer is different, because NeOmega doesn't have a strong opinion on it. See?

[lord of the mark]

[QUOTE] Originally posted by NeOmega

It is hard to dance around this subject... because a large percentage of Americans are "bipolar" or "depressed" and on medication. When I say it is not a disease, they get offended. there is no dancing around when it comes to this subject.

Do you even understand the difference between bipolar and unipolar depression? Have you read ANYTHING serious on this subject? Are you just spouting from ignorance.

Collective knowledge? Like the collective knowledge that said silicone breast implants were dangerous? Which after much study, proved to be absolutely wrong?

Some studies were wrong, ergo you can spout off anything that pops into your head?

Like I said, I started slamming the industry that is telling everyone they need dangerous drugs to be happy, but alot of people took it personally and attacked me, so I responded in kind.

SSRIs dont make you happy. Just less depressed.

drugs do not help the situation, and certainly drugging your kids stunts their emotional growth.

SSRIS can help, and depression stunts emotional growth.

[Darius871]

Originally posted by Lorizael


But those causes can still bring about a physiological response, and that response must be treated, especially if it can be life threatening.

If society or genetics or the culture you live in morphs your biology in such a way that you start producing chemicals that make you want to kill yourself, you may want to treat those ultimate causes, but you have to get rid of the suicide causing chemicals first; they are of more immediate concern.

This is where drugs help.

I'll admit it's tough for me to feel sympathy for people who made conscious choices that ultimately sparked that physiologically induced point of no return, but I'd agree there's no problem with using drugs as a temporary boost to get people back on their feet.

But you can't deny there's still a huge overprescribing problem in this country (driven by the pressures of a colossal pharmaceutical industry), and also far too many people who use drugs to get out of that slump and then keep using them unnecessarily instead of attacking the psychogenic root problems.

[Darius871]

Originally posted by Ecthy
They're also unhappy because they're in Russia.

Cue Serb...

[Kuciwalker]

Eh... everyone I know on those medications is on them for good and valid reasons. I don't think I've personally seen a case of overprescription. How do we know they're being overprescribed? (In significant amounts; obviously there will be some incorrect prescriptions.) Have there been any studies examining that?

[Lorizael]

Originally posted by Darius871
I'll admit it's tough for me to feel sympathy for people who made conscious choices that ultimately sparked that physiologically induced point of no return, but I'd agree there's no problem with using drugs as a temporary boost to get people back on their feet.

I'm going to be a slight troll here. This gets into matters of free will and personal responsibility. This gets into a situation of... could a person have known better? Should they have? Should we feel sorry for people who eat poorly and get heart attacks? Should we feel sorry for people who dress provocatively and get raped?

But you can't deny there's still a huge overprescribing problem in this country (driven by the pressures of a colossal pharmaceutical industry), and also far too many people who use drugs to get out of that slump and then keep using them unnecessarily instead of attacking the psychogenic root problems.

I would tend to agree with you on this one, but as kuci pointed out, is there any hard data on this matter?

[Darius871]

Originally posted by Lorizael
could a person have known better? Should they have?

Sure, all it takes is a quick trip to the library.

Originally posted by Lorizael
Should we feel sorry for people who eat poorly and get heart attacks?

God no.

Originally posted by Lorizael
Should we feel sorry for people who dress provocatively and get raped?

Apples and oranges; in this scenario one person harms another, not oneself.

Originally posted by Lorizael
I would tend to agree with you on this one, but as kuci pointed out, is there any hard data on this matter?

Clearly there's no survey that could determine if (and for how long) medication is actually necessary for a subject and then compare that to the subject's use, I'll admit it. This is just a subjective impression I got from people I've known who used the crutch for years instead of as a brief leg-up, and some articles in psych journals.

For now I can only throw in that [anti-depressants overprescribed] gets almost 18,000 google hits, including a number of reputable sources. I'll try and look for actual studies after work.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Darius871


Sure, all it takes is a quick trip to the library.

WTF?

The mistakes that people make that cause the stress that leads to depressions include everything from taking the wrong job to entering the wrong relationship.

If you have a book that tells you what decisions in life are going to prove disastrous, Id like a copy.

BTW - its NOT always true that a leg up is all thats needed. Some folks, especially but not only bipolars, need medication indefinitely.

I also suspect that for every person whos on meds who shouldnt be, theres at least one who should be but isnt, cause of costs, stigma etc.