Is depression a disease? Is it more prevalent today?

[TCO]

Are you and Sir David still getting it on? Redhead?

[NeOmega]

Originally posted by Monk
NeOmega, would you bother to tell me the answer to my question?

You know, why there's a considerable distinction between lack of insulin and lack of serotonin to the extent that one constitutes a disease, the other not.

Because lack of seratonin is not the only indicator of depression.


If it were, they could just do a test, and say, yup low on seratonin, you have depression!! No more "do you cry more than once a week? Y N" "do you feel your life is meaningless? Y N"


Everyone who is low on seratonin does not suffer from depression. Yet everyone who is low on insulin suffers from diabetes.

[Darius871]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
More people are tested in first-world countries?

After digging up my old textbook it seems I was mistaken; actually the discrepancy is in suicide rates and not depression incidence. You're right that the latter's underreported in LDCs, but suicide rates are pretty hard statistics.

Originally posted by Monk
NeOmega, would you bother to tell me the answer to my question?

You know, why there's a considerable distinction between lack of insulin and lack of serotonin to the extent that one constitutes a disease, the other not.

To play devil's advocate, there is no proof that lack of serotonin causes depression; it's no less likely that certain voluntary life choices (wrt. social relationships, physical environment, exercise, diet, cognitive habits, etc.) themselves lower seratonin levels.

Correlation is not causation.

[MRT144]

Originally posted by NeOmega




A caveman did not shut down, and get taken care of by his peers for a couple of years. How ridiculous. They would have called it "lazy", and nobody would have stood for it.

I love these "probablies", and like Darius asked, why do 1st world countries haev higher rates of depression?

Because they are being sold a disease on TV and in magazines.

And I see a couple of your began medication as children. I think it's an outrage to be medicted as a child.... well, considering giving a kid coke at 14 or marijuana is an outrage.


Now, when you see your own kids becoming distant, or seemingly depressed, you'll haul them over to Dr. Prozac.


I mean, if as an adult, you choose to medicate with prozac or zolaft or tweek or coke or weed, I don't care, that is your choice.... they are all dagerous, and I assure you, lawsuits are on the way in a couple of decades, both for health and mental effects of these happy pills.

a caveman also didnt have medicine. in fact if whats good for cavemen is good enough for you, get off the internet, move out of your home, and STFU. the rest of us will use our latent ability to invent technology to improve our lives.

I dont buy the whole biological baseline for whats normal or desirable being some anachronistic, idealistic vision of man.

[NeOmega]

Originally posted by MRT144


a caveman also didnt have medicine. in fact if whats good for cavemen is good enough for you, get off the internet, move out of your home, and STFU. the rest of us will use our latent ability to invent technology to improve our lives.

I dont buy the whole biological baseline for whats normal or desirable being some anachronistic, idealistic vision of man.

If you think doing drugs is improving your life, more power to you. Don't come crying to me about the long term side effects 20 years down the road.

[MRT144]

no one does come complaining to you about taking drugs. you just mouth off about how its bunk. seriously, youre the one seeking out confrontation, not people who want to be treated in the best way known.

furthermore, i have never encountered anyone who is militant in their regret about drug use for depression, bi-polar, to the point where they go on and on and on, contradicting collective and medical knowledge on the subject.

why do you feel the imperitive to tell others whats best when you dont know **** about what youre talking about.

[NeOmega]

Originally posted by MRT144
no one does come complaining to you about taking drugs. you just mouth off about how its bunk. seriously, youre the one seeking out confrontation, not people who want to be treated in the best way known.

It is hard to dance around this subject... because a large percentage of Americans are "bipolar" or "depressed" and on medication. When I say it is not a disease, they get offended. there is no dancing around when it comes to this subject.

furthermore, i have never encountered anyone who is militant in their regret about drug use for depression, bi-polar, to the point where they go on and on and on, contradicting collective and medical knowledge on the subject.

Collective knowledge? Like the collective knowledge that said silicone breast implants were dangerous? Which after much study, proved to be absolutely wrong?

why do you feel the imperitive to tell others whats best when you dont know **** about what youre talking about.

Like I said, I started slamming the industry that is telling everyone they need dangerous drugs to be happy, but alot of people took it personally and attacked me, so I responded in kind.

Drugs do not help the situation, and certainly drugging your kids stunts their emotional growth.

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Darius871
After digging up my old textbook it seems I was mistaken; actually the discrepancy is in suicide rates and not depression incidence. You're right that the latter's underreported in LDCs, but suicide rates are pretty hard statistics.

People in the first world grow up in a less stressful environment, so smaller stresses have a bigger effect /random guess

[NeOmega]

and I forgot to add:

People ARE already suing the drug companies, claiming they cause suicide.

Just wait another decade or so, when people start getting real diseases, and blaming it on the happy pills.

Can you say breast implant lawsuit mania, part 2?

Most of it will be bull, but I am positive, a large percentage of the population cannot continue to fill themselves with hormones for decades and not have a good percentage of them suffer unwanted side effects.

[Elok]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
Scientists are a fraternity of head scratchers and ball manipulators.

Largely because they don't wear big goofy cowboy hats, nor do they have gaudy giant belt buckles and leather chaps impeding their hands. You're just mad because you have to sit there and tolerate it when your nuts and/or hair itch. Don't take it out on the scientists.

WRT the actual topic, the fact that depression is diagnosed more often in more advanced countries could mean any number of things:

-that people in less developed countries can't afford to go to a shrink for analysis and therapy
-that there aren't all that many shrinks to do the analysis in less developed countries
-that depressed people in less developed countries are sometimes instead diagnosed as suffering from "the Evil Eye"
-that depressed people in less developed countries attribute their gloomy feelings to the general crappiness of their existence
-that depressed people in less developed countries tend to go unnoticed against the backdrop of more obvious social problems such as drug addiction or corruption, etc.

And so on. Also, be careful of assuming that everything called "depression" is in fact the same problem. Even for medicine outside of the esoteric discipline of mental health, very different problems can have very similar symptoms. Some depressed people may be able to work themselves out of it, while some might require medication. Some of the latter group have a hard time even summoning up the energy to begin pulling themselves up. I was one of them.

And Neo, if a caveman had schizophrenia his neighbors wouldn't have stood for that either. They'd have cut a hole in his skull to let out the evil spirits, and if that didn't work they'd have banished him to avoid calling down bad luck. Or stoned him. In the middle ages, when they were more enlightened, they might have put him in funny colored tights and a hat with bells so the nobles could throw food at him and laugh during dinner. What was "good enough for granddad" was only good enough because it had to be. Granddad couldn't get anything better.

[MRT144]

after much study, done by who? monkeys? or people that employed the same scientific method that people in the medical industry do? its people like you that claimed silicone implants were bad.

large percentage my ass!

youre not slamming the industry by saying depression isnt a disease or illness. youre slamming everyone who has, had, or will have depression. youre saying if you have depression absolutely nothing can help you but yourself and for someone with depression that is the worst proposition ever.

hell i think its good to even give people placebos. it doesnt matter if its real or not, whether its god, exercise, prozac, sunshine, whatever, as long as that person can have a starting point to latch on to. just saying "snap out of it" isnt helpful and is just **** someone says when they want to make a point without making a point.

[NeOmega]

Originally posted by Elok


And Neo, if a caveman had schizophrenia.....

Why do you guys constantly use logical fallacies to support your argument. You know damn well that schizophrenia is not the same thing as depression.

A vast majority of schizophrenics, even with medication, cannot function in society. A vast majority of depressives functionin society, and indeed, are a workign part of the middle and upper classes.

[NeOmega]

Originally posted by MRT144

youre not slamming the industry by saying depression isnt a disease or illness. youre slamming everyone who has, had, or will have depression.

Look at the poll, 7 to 7. So I guess everyone else that doesn't believe it is a disease is "slamming" depressives as well, by not buying into the advertisements peddled on a grand scale in Western countries.

youre saying if you have depression absolutely nothing can help you but yourself and for someone with depression that is the worst proposition ever.

It is not the worst proposition, it is the best, because it puts the power back into the hands of the person causing the depression, themselves!

god, exercise, prozac, sunshine,

But not themselves... hell no, not themselves, that would be the worst propostion ever. You would rather they believe in anything, but themselves. And I am the bad guy.

[Elok]

That's not the bloody point. Of course schizophrenia and depression are distinct (though your statements are laughable; there are plenty of mild schizophrenics who can control themselves, much as depression comes in varying degrees of severity). My point is that "cavemen" would not have stood for either. We're talking about people who may well have practiced infanticide as a form of population control.

[TCO]

infanticide and abortion are very similar.