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Economists: Raising the minimum wage might actually be good after all.

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  • Economists: Raising the minimum wage might actually be good after all.

    This article is from Bloomberg which is normally an arch-conservative magazine. It has some very interesting conclusions about the effects, or lack there of, of raising the minimum wage. It turns out raising the minimum wage modestly doesn't really have much of a negative effect on the economy at all while the increased buying power at the lower end really does improve the lives of millions.

    Higher Minimum Wage No Longer Seen as Sure-Fire U.S. Job Killer

    Aug. 7 (Bloomberg) -- Prominent economists of all ideological persuasions long believed that raising the U.S. minimum wage would ****** job growth, creating unintended hardship for those at the bottom of the ladder.

    Today, that consensus is eroding, and a vigorous debate has developed as some argue that boosting the wage would pull millions out of poverty.

    A moderate increase in the minimum wage won't raise unemployment among low-skilled workers, according to recent studies, many economists say. They are joined by some business executives who say they can live with that, especially if it's coupled with tax relief.

    ``My thinking on this has changed dramatically,'' says Alan Blinder, a former Federal Reserve vice chairman who teaches economics at Princeton University in Princeton, New Jersey. ``The evidence appears to be against the simple-minded theory that a modest increase in the minimum wage causes substantial job loss.''

    The debate over how to help struggling American workers was at the center of a battle in Congress last week over whether to increase the federal minimum wage to $7.25 an hour by 2009 from the current $5.15. The measure failed after Democrats objected that the wage increase had been linked to a plan to roll back the federal estate tax for many multimillion-dollar estates.

    Democrats said they would try to revive the measure before the November elections without the estate tax provision. ``The Senate won't adjourn until hard-working Americans get the help they need,'' said Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada.

    Keeping Pace

    Blinder and others note that the federal minimum wage, last raised in 1997, is at its lowest level in 50 years when adjusted for inflation.

    ``Workers' wages need to at least keep pace with inflation,'' says Andrew Puzder, chief executive officer of Carpinteria, California-based CKE Restaurants Inc., which owns the Hardee's and Carl's Jr. fast-food restaurant chains. Puzder says he supports a reasonable increase in the minimum wage along with some form of tax relief for small businesses.

    In a Wells Fargo-Gallup poll taken in March, 46 percent of small-business owners said the minimum wage should be increased, and 86 percent said the wage had no effect on them.

    ``The wage has been left at such a low level for so many years now that inflation has eroded it,'' says Scott Anderson, a senior economist at San Francisco-based Wells Fargo & Co., the fifth-biggest U.S. bank. ``It's not as onerous to employers as it once was.''

    Traditional View

    Edward Lazear, chairman of the White House Council of Economic Advisers, says President George W. Bush is willing to work with Congress on finding ways to boost the minimum wage that won't significantly harm businesses. ``He's not opposed to changing the minimum wage, but it has to be done in a sensible way,'' Lazear said in a July 24 interview.

    Other economists still argue that the traditional view is right.

    ``The law of demand says simply that the higher the price of anything, the lower the quantity that will be taken,'' says William Dunkelberg, chief economist of the Washington-based National Federation of Independent Business. ``This law has never been incorrect in predicting market behavior.''

    Most evidence suggests ``that a minimum wage increase causes some job loss among low-skilled workers,'' says David Neumark of the University of California, Irvine. Neumark has written studies critical of research casting doubt on that view and has testified before Congress against minimum-wage increases.

    Changing Views

    This view once was widespread. A 1978 American Economic Review survey found that 90 percent of economists said the minimum wage boosted unemployment among low-skilled workers.

    Today, that number would probably be cut in half, says Robert Solow, an economist at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in Cambridge who won the 1987 Nobel Prize in economics.

    A turning point in the debate came in the 1990s as states such as New Jersey began boosting their mandated wages above the federal level.

    In 1995, Princeton economists David Card and Alan Krueger published research on unemployment trends among fast-food restaurants in New Jersey and neighboring Pennsylvania. They found that the number of jobs rose in New Jersey compared with Pennsylvania, even though New Jersey had a higher minimum wage.

    The study, while not perfect, ``provided evidence that went against the common view,'' Solow says. ``It changed the way many economists look at minimum wage.''

    `How Small the Effect'

    ``The debate now has become over how small the effect is as opposed to how large,'' says Arindrajit Dube, a labor economist at the University of California at Berkeley.

    Binder acknowledges that it's an ``intellectual puzzle'' why a boost in the minimum wage wouldn't lead to wider unemployment, because the economic laws of supply and demand dictate that it should.

    Explanations include cost savings from reduced job turnover, increased productivity as a result of better worker morale and the attraction of higher-quality employees through higher wages, Blinder says.

    To workers whose pay is at or near the minimum wage, raising it makes sense.

    ``I want a raise in the wage not just to boost me up, but because it will help us out as a country,'' says Sandy Mayes, a 39-year-old mother of four from Louisville, Kentucky, who says she sometimes takes minimum-wage jobs to supplement the $17,800 a year she earns as a teachers' assistant. ``Working in a school, I see parents who work themselves to death to live below average, and their kids suffer tremendously.''

    Social Consequences

    A boost in the minimum wage would benefit about 15 million people, according to the Economic Policy Institute, a Washington research group partially funded by labor unions. Jared Bernstein, a senior economist at the institute, estimates that the average minimum-wage worker generates 54 percent of his or her family's total weekly earnings.

    ``The social consequences of raising the wage have become increasingly important,'' says Nobel Prize-winning economist Joseph Stiglitz, former chief economist for the World Bank in Washington and now a professor at Columbia University in New York.

    Some economists say the 1997 increase had no impact on job growth.

    ``We saw no ripple effect at all in the unemployment rate,'' Stiglitz says. ``Unemployment just continued to go down.'' The minimum wage increase, he said, ``was totally swamped by other factors going on in the economy.''
    Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

  • #2
    I thought Card and Krueger's research already dispelled the myth that raising the minimum wage decreases employment.
    Kids, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try. -Homer

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    • #3
      Only to people who bothered to listen. It seems to be sinking in though since even conservative publications are now coming out and saying they were wrong and that they over stated the negative drag raising the minimum wage was supposed to have. Clearly there is some negative effects on job growth but the negatives are so small that many economists are now saying that modest increases can be a net positive.
      Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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      • #4
        /me patiently waits for Adam Smith
        I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
        For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

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        • #5
          Originally posted by flash9286
          I thought Card and Krueger's research already dispelled the myth that raising the minimum wage decreases employment.
          Originally posted by Oerdin
          Only to people who bothered to listen. … Clearly there is some negative effects on job growth but the negatives are so small that many economists are now saying that modest increases can be a net positive.
          We've been through this several times before, and it is really getting tiresome.


          My thoughts regarding further discussion of this topic are best expressed by one of our resident economic experts:
          Originally posted by Oerdin
          Naturally people who have spent 25 years denying a mountain of scientific evidence will just continue lying and some people will be ignorant enough or mentally deficient enough to believe them.
          Old posters never die.
          They j.u.s.t..f..a..d..e...a...w...a...y....

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          • #6
            Adam Smith to the rescue!!
            "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

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            • #7
              ...people like to cry a lot... - Pekka
              ...we just argue without evidence, secure in our own superiority. - Snotty

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              • #8
                Hint..... Take a look at any article that features Card Krueger study as a pro raising the minimum wage arguement and then pause...... and laugh mightily.
                "Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson

                “In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy Carter

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                • #9
                  Adam Smith pwnz again.
                  I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
                  For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator Rubio

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Adam Smith




                    We've been through this several times before, and it is really getting tiresome.


                    My thoughts regarding further discussion of this topic are best expressed by one of our resident economic experts:


                    http://apolyton.net/forums/showthrea...hreadid=155611
                    Can I have links to these peices please, i specifally remeber K-C saying in there rebuttal to Neumark and Wascher that they used BLS data and N-W's own data.

                    All this begs the question why are conservative economists like Landsburg and Cowen hold a view opposite yours.

                    Steve Landsburg imparts much wisdom on the minimum wage; read Brad DeLong as well. Steve writes: How do we know what was in all the unpublished research about the minimum wage? Of course we don’t know for sure, but here’s what we do know: First, the big published studies were no more statistically significant than […]
                    Kids, you tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is, never try. -Homer

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                    • #11


                      Oerdin thoroughly pwned

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                      • #12
                        "You're the biggest user of hindsight that I've ever known. Your favorite team, in any sport, is the one that just won. If you were a woman, you'd likely be a slut." - Slowwhand, to Imran

                        Eschewing silly games since December 4, 2005

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by flash9286
                          Can I have links to these peices please, i specifally remeber K-C saying in there rebuttal to Neumark and Wascher that they used BLS data and N-W's own data.
                          The posts I linked to cited the Murphy and Welch study, not Neumark and Wascher. At any rate, HERE is a digest of the Murphy and Welch study. I can't seem to lay my hands on the original right now.

                          HERE is the Neumark and Wascher study, though I see no reference to a Card-Kreuger rebuttal.

                          Originally posted by flash9286
                          All this begs the question why are conservative economists like Landsburg and Cowen hold a view opposite yours.
                          Opposite?

                          From Landsburg:
                          John Kerry wants to raise the minimum wage, and President Bush, at least in principle, is on board—provided, says the president's spokesman, that it...

                          If you want to transfer income to the working poor, there are fairer and more honest ways to do it. The Earned Income Tax Credit, for example, accomplishes pretty much the same goals as the minimum wage but without concentrating the burden on a tiny minority. For that matter, the EITC also does a better job of helping the people you'd really want to help, as opposed to, say, middle-class teenagers working summer jobs. It's pretty hard to argue that a minimum-wage increase beats an EITC increase by any criterion.
                          I could not agree more completely.

                          From Cowen:
                          Steve Landsburg imparts much wisdom on the minimum wage; read Brad DeLong as well. Steve writes: How do we know what was in all the unpublished research about the minimum wage? Of course we don’t know for sure, but here’s what we do know: First, the big published studies were no more statistically significant than […]

                          So the scenario is now simple. The government boosts the minimum wage. Low-wage workers earn more. Few lose their jobs. Workers sweat more too, one way or another. Few are much better off.
                          Most economists would doubt the Gordon Tullock argument that employers make working conditions worse in response to an increase in wages, but the rest of the statement agrees with what I said.

                          Speaking of work, I have a chunk to finish before I go home.

                          PS: The idea that the Card and Kreuger results are reflective of monopsony (one or few buyers) in the unskilled labor market does not seem to make much sense. If you have a large number of unskilled laborers, you almost certainly don't have the upward sloping supply curve of labor needed to make a monopsony profitable.

                          edits: formatting
                          Last edited by Adam Smith; August 7, 2006, 17:26.
                          Old posters never die.
                          They j.u.s.t..f..a..d..e...a...w...a...y....

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                          • #14
                            Ignorance
                            Science
                            Originally posted by Serb:Please, remind me, how exactly and when exactly, Russia bullied its neighbors?
                            Originally posted by Ted Striker:Go Serb !
                            Originally posted by Pekka:If it was possible to capture the essentials of Sepultura in a dildo, I'd attach it to a bicycle and ride it up your azzes.

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                            • #15
                              Income tax credits are a bureaucratic mess, whilst the minimum wage is self-enforcing.

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