The Middle East Continues...

[Az]

I think people are putting too much into this ceasefire thing. The US Administration has been dogging us to deal a major blow to Hizbullah for weeks now, and now finally we move. I don't think that America will let and serious changes into the draft Franco-american resolution.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
I stand corrected apparently one person is capable of thinking Israel that stupid.

You mean the Israeli's? Feel free to read what the Israeli press was saying a month ago, and what they still say, when the claim most lebanon hates Hizbullah.

Lets deal with the timing of this. Firstly Israel wants either Hezb destroyed or nuetered. Israel initially was stating as a matter of course that they wished UN resolutions to be enforced wherein Lebanon would actually disarm Hezb.

Now weeks after the battle started Israel realizes that Lebanaon is incapable of dealing with Hezb in a meaningful way. (both as a matter of political will to do so and men and materiel to back it up even were they willing to do so) The attacks on bridges etc. recognize this fact and in fact show that Israel really means to destroy Hezb as its only course of action. This is not in anyway a calculated strong arm/PR ploy to coerce support. To think so is ludicrous.

Israel gave up on "destroying Hizbullah" weeks ago. They know they can't. They have now settled on taking out the rocket firing ability and waiting for "the cavalry" in the from of an international force.

Collective punishment or not Israel has resigned themselves to do whatever is required to eliminate Hezb. Talk of these actions as being a measured means to play Leabanese political games is idle (moonbat) speculation along the same lines of Thomas Ricks and teh validity of his assertions that Israel passed on Hezb rocket sites in order to ensure Israeli civilian casualties to ensure moral superiority/equivalence.

Why do I waste the time?

[GePap]

Originally posted by lord of the mark "

Houses used to store rockets and launchers are military targets, as are roads and bridges used by a military force.

1. You are cheating. You are ignoring the "ignore" option.

2. Haven;t seen any evidence that Hizbulloah was hiding many rockets or launchers in the neighborhoods of Southern Lebanon that Israel has wiped out.

3. Given that the fighting is in the south, what is the justification of destroying bridges everywhere in the country?

In 1982 Israel did less damage to the general infrastructure of the country than in this last month, even when that operation was far larger and bloodier. But I guess this is what one gets when the flyboys get it into their head that they can win with just bombs.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Az
I think people are putting too much into this ceasefire thing. The US Administration has been dogging us to deal a major blow to Hizbullah for weeks now, and now finally we move. I don't think that America will let and serious changes into the draft Franco-american resolution.

I agree, and the US will pay a terrible diplomatic price for it.

[Dr Strangelove]

Hey! Our heroic patriotic local newspaper announced today that the Israeli-hezbollah conflict has cost 800 lives on both sides as of today. I had no idea that israeli casualties had been so high?

[GePap]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
Hey! Our heroic patriotic local newspaper announced today that the Israeli-hezbollah conflict has cost 800 lives on both sides as of today. I had no idea that israeli casualties had been so high?

They mean combined.

About 700 Lebanese and about 100 Israelis confirmed. The death toll is probably higher than that, specially amongst the Lebanese.

[Eli]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
Hey! Our heroic patriotic local newspaper announced today that the Israeli-hezbollah conflict has cost 800 lives on both sides as of today. I had no idea that israeli casualties had been so high?

It also happens the other way around. According to the Belorussian news:
"The conflict caused 1000 Lebanese deaths, most of them civilians. Israel has also suffered casualties. And now, to the latest grain harvest figures."

[Barnabas]

I doubt 800 israelis have been killed.

[Flip McWho]

Yes, you'd hear the word 'disproportionate' less.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by GePap


"1. You are cheating. You are ignoring the "ignore" option."


I saw it quoted. Anything quoted in a post by someone I dont have on ignore is fair game.

"2. Haven;t seen any evidence that Hizbulloah was hiding many rockets or launchers in the neighborhoods of Southern Lebanon that Israel has wiped out. "

Im not going to go pore over every IDF press conf to tell you what the target is for every strike. Ive read enough to get a sense that all strikes have intended military targets. NOt all are rockets and launchers - Hezb ground troops, C&C, etc are all targets.

"3. Given that the fighting is in the south, what is the justification of destroying bridges everywhere in the country?"

Im not privy to IDF intell - I presume they have a better understanding of Hezb logistics than I do.

"In 1982 Israel did less damage to the general infrastructure of the country than in this last month, "


Yeah, back then they occupied half the country, and got themselves all bloodied. By trying to avoid that result, theyre not playing fair.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
Hey! Our heroic patriotic local newspaper announced today that the Israeli-hezbollah conflict has cost 800 lives on both sides as of today. I had no idea that israeli casualties had been so high?

IE the total cost has been 800 lives, counting both sides. Maybe thats sloppy writing, but if you take that as distortion, we could have a hundred posts a day on headline writing thats biased against Israel. But that would be boring, and so some of us have developed thicker skins.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

I wonder why the thought continues to pervade that Israeli political leadership would be so prone to insert themselves into the minutiae of tactical decisions that they would formulate and decide daily targets (for a supposed political gain of strong arming moderate lebanese into forcing Lebanon into getting their house inorder).

If anything political leadership has been seen to be the moderating effect keeping the IDF in check so as to not go so overboard as to run risk of alienating US support.

Puzzling this line of thought.

[lord of the mark]

given that Lebanon is allegedly being "destroyed" and that Lebanon would seem to need a ceasefire as soon as possible, it seems odd to me that the Govt of Lebanon is quibbling over the terms of a ceasefire. And that theyve made Israeli withdrawl conditional for a ceasefire. Even though Israel has made it clear they will withdraw as soon as theres an international force. Does the GoL intend to oppose the deployment of an international force? Do they think continued destruction is worth it to remove the chance of Israel occupying 5 km in along the border? (even though a Govt of Israel that withdrew from Gaza is unlikely to stay in even that zone of Leb, against most of the Israeli polity)

Or could it be that Israels ground offensive IS weakening Hezbollah, and the GoL is not unwilling to see that continue, even while coming up with grounds for oppossing a ceasefire that sound like good arab nationalist grounds, and avoid open complicity with Israels actions.

I mean if I was PM of Lebanon, and wanted to see the IDF destroy Hezbollah, I doubt I would do or say anything different than what PM Sinora is actually doing and saying.

[Sandman]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
Im not going to go pore over every IDF press conf to tell you what the target is for every strike. Ive read enough to get a sense that all strikes have intended military targets. NOt all are rockets and launchers - Hezb ground troops, C&C, etc are all targets.

So why did they blow up Beirut's lighthouse?

[Lodi]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yW4wmAmzq5I

Was this covered here already?

That guy at the end is a complete scumbag.