Who thinks the USS Liberty incident bears a striking resemblace to the UN post deaths

[Vince278]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
The Anan was correct. Israel deliberately hit them.

It is dangerous for Annan to make baseless accusations that quickly without backing it up. He just made any investigation even more difficult.

Now if Hezbollah was using the post for cover and the UN did nothing about it wouldn't that make the UN at least partially responsible? If they held back so Hezbollah wouldn't shoot at them then they were setting themselves up for failure.

[pchang]

The Real Answer

Is that UN forces should be given permission to shoot at anyone who is endangering them, even if indirectly. They should also be given enough firepower and backup to adequately protect themselve or they should not be deployed.

[PLATO]

The e-mail appears to contradict the UN's claim there had been no Hezbollah activity in the vicinity of the strike.

The Anan was correct.

Once again...

[Sprayber]

Re: The Real Answer

Originally posted by pchang
Is that UN forces should be given permission to shoot at anyone who is endangering them, even if indirectly. They should also be given enough firepower and backup to adequately protect themselve or they should not be deployed.

The real answer is that the UN shouldn't be there or anywhere else unless they are prepared to make themselves useful for other purposes besides shields. They serve no purpose beyond satisfying some need of the UN to feel relevent.

Saying all of that, Israel knew they were there and knew the ****storm killing any of them would bring down upon them. Merely saying they shouldn't be there doesn't wash them of responsibilty of killing them.

The UN, Hezbolla, and Israel all share blame for this. The UN should get the **** out or do something instead of whine and complain that their people got killed when their own people had been complaining about it. Kofi didn't care anymore about those guys than the Iraelis or Hezbolla did, cause if he had they would have been removed or actually given the authority to do what they had to do.

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Cruelity posted this on a different site and I thought it was worth reporting. It originally came from the Canadian paper the Ottawa Citizen.



Basically the Canadian paper is saying that UN personal in the field repeatedly complained to higher that Hezbollah was using them as human shields by launching attacks and starting fire fights right next to or on top of UN posts. Even the Canadian soldier who was killed yesterday himself said that Hezbollah was deliberately right next to UN positions and was attacking Israelis hoping that either the Israelis wouldn't return fire out of fear of hitting the UN or that if the Israelis did return fire that they'd also kill the UN people. Either way it works for the terrorists.

That is much the same way I heard it. Really, the UN already ****s on Israel, Israel is probably at the "we no longer give a damn" mark.

Frankly, I think anything in Lebanon is fair game, so long as the Lebanese government claims the Hezbollah-controlled area belongs to them.

[Vesayen]

U.N. observers get hit by bombs in a war zone? Wow. I guess it means it MUST of been on purpose... even though the Israeli PM already apologized and said it was a mistake.... and there is absolutley no benifit to Israel, at all,to blow it up?

[GePap]

Originally posted by Lonestar
Frankly, I think anything in Lebanon is fair game, so long as the Lebanese government claims the Hezbollah-controlled area belongs to them.

Actually, Never is "everything" fair game in any country, no matter what. That is because the rights of individual human beings, regardless of their nationality, trumps collective "rights."

[Vesayen]

GePap. Do you own a single item of clothing made in a slave labor sweatshop?

Seems you don't care about individual rights or the dignity of man, just legality.

I fail to see the difference as you, the pot, call the kettle black.

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by GePap


Actually, Never is "everything" fair game in any country, no matter what. That is because the rights of individual human beings, regardless of their nationality, trumps collective "rights."

To clarify, any reasonable military target in Lebanon is fair game. If Lebanon wanted Israel to take them seriously about not wanting this, then they Lebanese army should have moved in to re-afirm control of the area that Hezbollah occupies when they started shooting rockets. Or Lebanon could have said "well, we no longer have control of the region, it's independant".

Instead, Lebanon continued to maintain it has soveriegnty and had it's military stand by and do nothing. My sympathy for the country is pretty low.

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by Lonestar
Frankly, I think anything in Lebanon is fair game, so long as the Lebanese government claims the Hezbollah-controlled area belongs to them.

Reality is there are lots of things in Lebanon that Israel wants to stay clear of because the US can only protect them to a certain point. Despite the general uselessness of the UN, killing them is to be avoided.

x-post

[GePap]

Originally posted by Vesayen
GePap. Do you own a single item of clothing made in a slave labor sweatshop?

As far as I know. NO.

Wait, why I am waisting my time with YOU???

[Dinner]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
The Anan was correct. Israel deliberately hit them.

Not really. Israel was aiming at the Hezbollah who were deliberately placing themselves as close to the UN as possible and then firing on the Israelis.

[Vesayen]

Originally posted by GePap


As far as I know. NO.

Wait, why I am waisting my time with YOU???

If you live in the U.S. or any European country it is almost a guarantee you own clothes made by *ACTUAL* slaves. The amount, varies.

You profit from the sweat and degredation of third world labors and the pillaging of the enviroment for future generations, every day.

Yet your preaching about the inherant dignity and rights of man?

The fact you are unaware you violate these rights makes no difference, you still violate them and appealing to them when you violate them is hypocritical.

If I tell you thievery is wrong, while simultaneously robbing a store, I might not have a very firm moral pulpit to preach from.

[Proteus_MST]

Originally posted by Vince278


It is dangerous for Annan to make baseless accusations that quickly without backing it up. He just made any investigation even more difficult.

Now if Hezbollah was using the post for cover and the UN did nothing about it wouldn't that make the UN at least partially responsible? If they held back so Hezbollah wouldn't shoot at them then they were setting themselves up for failure.

I think so.
Especially I don´t understand why the UN didn´t fence in the surroundings of their post, with warning signs that everyone who crosses the fence will be shot.
They just would have to create a large enough perimeter around their post so that Hezbollah rocket launchers parked directly at the fence wouldn´t endanger the UN post if Israel commited retaliatory strikes.

[Colon™]

Re: Re: The Real Answer

Originally posted by Sprayber



The real answer is that the UN shouldn't be there or anywhere else unless they are prepared to make themselves useful for other purposes besides shields. They serve no purpose beyond satisfying some need of the UN to feel relevent.

Saying all of that, Israel knew they were there and knew the ****storm killing any of them would bring down upon them. Merely saying they shouldn't be there doesn't wash them of responsibilty of killing them.

The UN, Hezbolla, and Israel all share blame for this. The UN should get the **** out or do something instead of whine and complain that their people got killed when their own people had been complaining about it. Kofi didn't care anymore about those guys than the Iraelis or Hezbolla did, cause if he had they would have been removed or actually given the authority to do what they had to do.

Annan doesn't have the authorithy to change the mandate or the authorithies of a UN mission on a whim, it's the Security Council (and therefore its members) that determines this via resolutions. UNIFIL also long predates Kofi Annan's appointment as secretary-general so blaming him for UNIFIL being there or what form it has isn't really fair.