Israel invades Lebanon after new capturing of soldiers

[lightblue]

Hezbollah is not only supported by Syria and Iran but must have reasonable support from the local populace aswell. So targetting the infrastructure makes sense. Although it will first drive more people into the arms of Hezbollah (or Hamas in Gaza), if you keep it up, destroy power stations, road infrastructure, water treatment plants, factories, fuel depots etc, and after awhile the populace will turn against Hamas/Hezbollah. At least I think this is what th Israeli strategy is.

I was never truly pro or against Israel, but have become much more pro recently ever since the Pals elected Hamas. If you elect a known terrorsit organisation you have shared culpability in all actions of said terrorist organisation. Think it similar to the people that voted in the National Socialists in Germany and then declared ignorance at the end of WW2.

All in all the true enemy is radical Islam, and the sooner everyone realises that there's no talking to these people the better. There can be no appeasement, negotation, trade or diplomatic relations with any state or organisation that is in anyway involved with Islamic fundamentalists. This includes "friendly" states like Saudi-Arabia and Pakistan.

[Imran Siddiqui]

And now Israel decides to hit the airport again and targets fuel depots?

Yeah, Lebanon will surely be friendlier to Isreal in the future if you demolish their only international airport.

[Elok]

Originally posted by lightblue
I was never truly pro or against Israel, but have become much more pro recently ever since the Pals elected Hamas. If you elect a known terrorsit organisation you have shared culpability in all actions of said terrorist organisation. Think it similar to the people that voted in the National Socialists in Germany and then declared ignorance at the end of WW2.

Ahem. Godwin...

[lightblue]

Well.. isn't there some rule that one should invoke Godwin's law within the first 10 pages of any Poly ME thread? We were slacking, so i thought I'd throw it in there

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by lightblue
All in all the true enemy is radical Islam, and the sooner everyone realises that there's no talking to these people the better. There can be no appeasement, negotation, trade or diplomatic relations with any state or organisation that is in anyway involved with Islamic fundamentalists. This includes "friendly" states like Saudi-Arabia and Pakistan.

What a bunch of ****

I hope the leaders of the world will never buy this mindset, otherwise we're due for a perpetual war or a genocide.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

I feel like Yossarian in catch -22. everyone thinks the situation is normal and keeps telling him that he's insane when actually, its the world thats turned upside down.

[lightblue]

Originally posted by Spiffor

What a bunch of ****

I hope the leaders of the world will never buy this mindset, otherwise we're due for a perpetual war or a genocide.

How do you talk to people that a/ identify primarily through their religion b/ this religion tells them that unbelievers are worthless and that they should martyr themselves for the cause of a grand calpihate c/ as a result produce ranks of people willing to kill themselves trying to achieve these goals.

The only way to stop Islamist terrorism is by turning off the money tap, and this money comes from our trading with states like Saudi-Arabia. It is well known the money comes from there, but because of our thirst for oil we don't do anything about it. Which means that we won't stop it whatever else we do at the moment. You need to cut off the head(s) to stop it, and if the heads regrow, keep cutting.

[Imran Siddiqui]

this religion tells them that unbelievers are worthless and that they should martyr themselves for the cause of a grand calpihate

That's exactly what the mass Muslim population of, say, Mumbai is doing right now?

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by lightblue
How do you talk to people that a/ identify primarily through their religion b/ this religion tells them that unbelievers are worthless and that they should martyr themselves for the cause of a grand calpihate c/ as a result produce ranks of people willing to kill themselves trying to achieve these goals.

You see how they react at being put in a position of responsibility. Some will remain zealots (and will be toppled, because such ideologues are bad for the group, once the group is in power), and some will become more pragmatic. And discussion is all about pragmatism.

Just look at Iran. Fundamentalist Islamic regime, with some elements of civilian governance. After the initial craze of the eighties, all moderate leaders have come from the religious caste. OTOH, the most extremist ruler of Iran for at least 10 years, Ahmadinejad, is a civilian, has the government with the most civilians in history, and isn't too traditionalist on matters of faith (he wants to open football stadiums to women, for example)

In your universe, how can it be that a Muslim fundamentalist like Khatami is a better negociation partner than the less traditionalist Ahmadinejad?


Want another example? Look at Turkey. Their non-religious regime has democratically elected an Islamist government. They want to do things like punish cheating women. Yet, they are the government that has done the most for Turkey's entry in the EU.

And I would go so far to tell you: look at Hamas.
The very raison d'être of Hamas is supposedly to destroy Israel, because the Fatah has "betrayed" the Palestinian people by not wanting to destroy Israel anymore. And what did Hamas do? They accepted a text that indirectly acknowledges Israel's right to exist. Once in power, Hamas has made arrangements with -nay, it betrayed- the very ideological reasons of its existence.

But no, of course, no Islamist can possibly discuss or make concessions. They're all the same, a bunch of murderous zealots who'll stop only once they're dead.

The only way to stop Islamist terrorism is by turning off the money tap, and this money comes from our trading with states like Saudi-Arabia. It is well known the money comes from there, but because of our thirst for oil we don't do anything about it.

QFT.
Of course, there used to be an organized nonreligious country that sat on a barely-tapped sea of oil. But I guess it's too late for that now.

Which means that we won't stop it whatever else we do at the moment. You need to cut off the head(s) to stop it, and if the heads regrow, keep cutting.

Yeah!
And massacre dozens of innocents in the process. It will sure prevent the heads from regrowing

[lightblue]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

this religion tells them that unbelievers are worthless and that they should martyr themselves for the cause of a grand calpihate

That's exactly what the mass Muslim population of, say, Mumbai is doing right now?

You have to differentiate between different groups of Muslims just like your average Protestant doesn't agree with Phelps. The problem is that the extremist elements are at least partially state funded, or if not are funded by people in positions of power within the state.

[Zkribbler]

Just got done talking with a friend of mine who is half Lebonese.

His mom and the rest of the family stopped off in Beruit to see her brother, whom she had not seen in over 20 years. They woke up to find the airport bombed, and now they can't get out.

[Proteus_MST]

Originally posted by Az

Why should we discuss with people who can't even accept our existance? We didn't do that before their act, and we are sure not about to do that after that. And what is there to discuss?

Is it true that schoolbooks in Israel
contain a map of Israel which includes the westbank as a part of Israel?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by lightblue
You have to differentiate between different groups of Muslims just like your average Protestant doesn't agree with Phelps. The problem is that the extremist elements are at least partially state funded, or if not are funded by people in positions of power within the state.

May I quote you:

this religion tells them that unbelievers are worthless and that they should martyr themselves for the cause of a grand calpihate

You didn't differentiate.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
Just got done talking with a friend of mine who is half Lebonese.

His mom and the rest of the family stopped off in Beruit to see her brother, whom she had not seen in over 20 years. They woke up to find the airport bombed, and now they can't get out.

That sucks.. I hope they stay safe, Zkrib!

[faded glory]

Islam is a religon of war and intolerance. The

...Im going to edit the rest at the risk of sounding like a big mouthed american who is out to kill all brown people