Microsoft's iPod competitor...image leaked, will be Xbox branded

[LordShiva]

Looks ugly. Creative's new player looks cool though.

[Nostromo]

Its not ugly, its bland, IMO. Rumor has it that in order to lure in customers, Microsoft will give away a version of every track you bought on the iTunes music store.

I bought a number of tracks on the iTunes store and see now the error of my ways: you're basically stuck with iPod's or the iTunes player. For example, I'll probably buy a Squeezebox to replace my CD player, but it can't play the songs I bought on the iTunes music store. It sucks.

About the iPod and Creative:

Why the iPod isn't Creative

7/10/2006 2:16:17 PM, by Clint Ecker

According to documents filed by Creative with the United States International Trade Commission in mid-May, Steve Jobs approached a Creative employee at MacWorld 2001 to talk shop about Creative's then flagship product, the Nomad Jukebox. What begun at this innocuous meeting may well have led to the creation of a digital audio empire that could have rivaled what Apple has put together on its own. On the other hand, it may have also led to stunning failure for both parties.

In the past few months, one of Apple's biggest rivals in the digital audio player space, Creative, has begun competing with Apple using legal tactics. Looking back before the birth of the iPod, Creative had a significant lead on Apple, with almost a full year's experience in developing and selling hard-disk-based players. What is almost completely unknown, however, is that Apple was willing to work with Creative to develop an Apple-licensed player as opposed to building their own from scratch.

According to Creative's legal filings (available via PACER) with the US International Trade Commission, Apple had originally sought to license Creative's IP and create the iPod on Creative's platform. The filings reveal that Apple was unsure that this scheme was going to be profitable in the long run, and proposed the radical (for Apple) idea of partnering with Creative to create a digital audio player. Creative decided against joining forces, and the rest is history.

While one might be quick to assume that a merger between the two companies would have led to a marriage punctuated with hundred dollar bills falling from the mirrored ceiling of their honeymoon suite, it may also be that a mating of these two wildly different corporations would have been destined for failure. Apple's reckless abandon coupled with Creative's bulky hardware and stodgy corporate culture would likely have resulted in clashes of personality, among other things.

As it stands, Apple scored big when Creative turned down their proposal, freeing them up to engineer the iPod as they had envisioned it, rather than working off of one of Creative's prototyped designs—or using Creative's patented IP, as the lawsuits allege.

Creative and Apple's relations were dotted by pithy remarks and under-the-belt jabs until this lawsuit business reared its head. Apple was able to take a radically different approach to marketing, growing their market while making a lot of money. As a result, the iPod has become synonymous with the portable digital audio player market. Today, Creative and Apple stand with patent lawsuits loaded, waiting for the other to flinch first—unless they can come to a settlement themselves.

[Tattila the Hun]

Originally posted by Oerdin
I don't think it looks any blander then the other media players out there

I think it looks bland, because it looks like every other media player out there.

[Verto]

Meh. Based solely on the image, I don't see a lot of interest being generated by it. Apple really does kick ass when it comes to design.

It'll be a wait and see as far as whether or not this actually offers something truly compelling, or simply tries to play catchup. For example, in my dreams, I envision being able to go to Best Buy and purchase a DVD boxed set of a movie or TV show, with an Argo-ready formated version of it included on disc. Or a code to allow me to download the movie or TV show for free, or at a significantly reduced price at an online music/media store (this is what Apple should be doing with iTunes.)

[Imran Siddiqui]

Btw, the central circular thing doesn't look like a 'clickwheel', but simple a touch scrolling device. Though I wonder, are we going to call any MP3 player with a circular scroll to be an 'iPod clone'? If they went with a vertical scroll, they'd be called a 'Creative clone'. I mean coming in so late to the MP3 player game, they are going to be called a clone of something, no matter what they do!

[Verto]

Originally posted by nostromo

About the iPod and Creative:

I don't see how you can argue the iPod is a copy of a Creative player. By sharing the most basic and rudimentary file system?

[Asher]

Originally posted by Verto
I don't see how you can argue the iPod is a copy of a Creative player. By sharing the most basic and rudimentary file system?

Step 1: They recognized Creative had the market and talked to them about licensing their technology
Step 2: With Creative's rebuke, they did their own...emulating Creative's software interface which Creative had patented prior to Apple's work
Step 3: They produced a rectangular harddrive-based MP3 player after Creative did

There's more of an argument that Apple is copying Creative than vice versa.

[Asher]

Argo aims guns at more than iPod

By Brier Dudley

Seattle Times staff columnist

Microsoft is indeed developing a digital-media player to compete with Apple's iPod, and there's much more to the story.

A few details trickled out last week from music companies that Microsoft is lining up to support the device. Microsoft isn't commenting, but I was able to piece together a broader picture with some research, reporting and information from a source close to the project. What's being developed is actually a complete line of Xbox-branded digital-media products, including a device that plays media, a software media player and an online media service.

The project, or at least part of it, is referred to internally at Microsoft by the code name Argo — a reference to the huge warship used by the hero Jason in Greek mythology.

Argo is being developed within the Xbox group under the leadership of Xbox co-founder J Allard. His team includes people who previously worked on MSN Music, an online music service that had a promising debut in 2004 but fell victim to Microsoft's dithering over its music strategy.

Now the company is firmly behind Argo. It has committed hundreds of millions to produce and market the devices.

As reported last week, initially by Bloomberg News, the device is expected to go on sale by Christmas. It has Wi-Fi capability so it can connect wirelessly to home and public networks and other players.

Wi-Fi sounds like a big deal if you're comparing the player to the wire-bound iPod. But this is more than just another MP3 player. It will also compete with game players from Sony and Nintendo that have long had Wi-Fi and work as media players, Internet terminals and communication devices.

Argo is likely to showcase another Allard project — XNA, a new toolkit that helps game developers create titles for multiple platforms.

It's a grand plan, but as with a few other big projects in Redmond, it may be a struggle to get it all done by the end of 2006. The project isn't completed yet, the holidays are approaching fast and the team is under intense pressure to get everything absolutely right.

The timing of the hype cycle is perfect, however. Microsoft's annual meeting with financial analysts is July 27, and it's looking bleak. Wall Street is furious Microsoft won't be selling new versions of Windows and Office in the fall as promised.

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Argo could help the December quarter and give executives something to discuss with analysts other than product delays, Bill Gates' departure and the high cost of doing battle with Google.

I had thought Microsoft would put its holiday marketing effort behind Urge, a music service it developed with MTV and bundled into Windows Vista's new media-player software. It's helping device makers produce players that show off Urge and the software. Now, those efforts are in parallel with Argo.

On the surface it seems like a rebuke of the Windows team that has carried Microsoft's digital-media torch. It's also a test of Chief Executive Steve Ballmer and his reorganization of the company. Has he truly made the product groups more autonomous? Can Xbox's young guns get past the old guard with a less Windows-centric venture?

By approving Argo, Ballmer was at least willing to try a bold new approach and risk alienating device makers that buy a lot of software.

But there's more at stake. Apple and others are becoming entertainment gateways, broadband-era broadcasters. If Microsoft doesn't do the same, it would, heaven forbid, be just a software company

The big news is support for XNA. XNA is the .NET-based gaming development kit for PC, Xbox 360, and "other devices" (which is now known to be Argo players). That means games on Xbox Live Arcade, which are implemented with XNA, can likely be played on Argo devices.

That means developers can create a game for Xbox Live Arcade, and it can be played on Windows Vista Arcade and Argo players without recoding it.

[Nostromo]

Btw, the central circular thing doesn't look like a 'clickwheel', but simple a touch scrolling device.

Its probably not a click wheel. Apple has the copyright on that, and since its one of the iPod's major selling point, Apple will not let anyone use it. That's why nobody's using it. Otherwise, it would probably be the standard right now.

[Asher]

I'm willing to bet it's touch sensitive.

Move your thumb up to scroll up, move your thumb down to scroll down, etc.

[Nostromo]

The big news is support for XNA. XNA is the .NET-based gaming development kit for PC, Xbox 360, and "other devices" (which is now known to be Argo players). That means games on Xbox Live Arcade, which are implemented with XNA, can likely be played on Argo devices.

That means developers can create a game for Xbox Live Arcade, and it can be played on Windows Vista Arcade and Argo players without recoding it.

That feature bloat also means that it will be quite expensive.

[Asher]

Eh? I don't see how you can say that, because that's a software feature and XNA already exists.

[Nostromo]

I don't see how you can argue the iPod is a copy of a Creative player. By sharing the most basic and rudimentary file system?

I'm not arguing anything. I posted it because its interesting, IMO. That said, Apple obviously didn't come up with the iPod design without any outside influence. And it seems they violated some patents in the process. They took the Creative player and made it great, with a better industrial design, a better user interface (the click-wheel), better software (iTunes, compared to the software that came with Creative players at the time) and better marketing.

[Nostromo]

Eh? I don't see how you can say that, because that's a software feature and XNA already exists.

I'm alluding to the rumoured "fact" that it's also competing with the DS and the PSP. So it will need a lot more horsepower than a garden variety MP3 players. And if they really plan to make this a DS or PSP killer, its poorly designed, IMO.

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by nostromo


Its probably not a click wheel. Apple has the copyright on that, and since its one of the iPod's major selling point, Apple will not let anyone use it. That's why nobody's using it. Otherwise, it would probably be the standard right now.

Didn't say it was a clickwheel Just 'looks like'.

I agree that it'll probably be fairly expensive, if they plan on adding a higher gaming capacity to it. But MS might well underprice it to try and take over some marketshare