World Football Thread XIV - Italy: Hail to the Champions

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by SpencerH
I realize that you're only an attorney but you should still be able to understand the concept that the FIFA list can be less correct/realistic at one point in time than at another

May I remind you of what you said?

It's certainly respectable and more accurate than the bogus FIFA rankings that seem to energize the local commentator-parrots.

You never made a distinction between current and past FIFA rankings, you simply said "bogus FIFA rankings" which seem (present, not past tense) to energize commentators, indicating, to a reasonable person, that you had no idea that these were current FIFA rankings.

[DanS]

Originally posted by MikeH
Aren't DC United peaking in fitness because they are in the middle of their regular season?

Yep.

Whereas for Celtic this will be their first pre-season friendly, before any of the players are up to anywhere near full fitness.

3rd pre-season friendly. They had a couple in Poland.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by DanS
3rd pre-season friendly. They had a couple in Poland.

Yeah, MikeH:

[LordShiva]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/gabriele_marcotti/07/12/zidane.materazzi/1.html

The French singer Jean-Louis Murat summed up Zinédine Zidane like this: "Nobody knows if Zidane is an angel or a demon ... He smiles like Saint Teresa and grimaces like a serial killer."

Murat is a huge Zizou fan and there is a fair dose of truth in those words. His genius has always had a dark side, as evidenced by the 14 red cards he collected in his career. The last month showed him at his best -- when, as one paper put it, he was the only "Brazilian" on the pitch when France played Brazil -- and at his worst, when he head-butted Marco Materazzi in the World Cup final.

His final public appearance, Wednesday night, could have offered some degree of redemption, but, instead, it was more darkness than light.

Zidane said Materazzi provoked him by insulting his mother and sister. And he said that while he apologized to the "children" who had witnessed the incident (but, bizarrely, nobody else who might not have enjoyed seeing a grown man assault another adult) he had no regrets and would do it all over again.

"I tell myself that if things happened this way, it's because somewhere up there it was decided that way," he added.

That last part was perhaps the most absurd. Blaming God -- or whatever deity you believe in -- for your actions borders on the demented. Whatever your religion, one thing they all share is that there is a degree of free will, that God gives you the power to make your own decisions. The "God wanted it that way" defense (and it's not-so-distant cousin the "God made me do it" defense) is particularly hard to swallow.

Beyond that, discovering that Materazzi had "only" insulted Zidane's mother and sister was a bit of a letdown. Anybody who has played any kind of competitive team sport at any level (with the possible exception of volleyball and polo) will have heard a fair amount of trash talking.

It's ugly, sure. It's childish, absolutely. But most people do not snap and head-butt opponents when their mother is insulted, particularly when that insult occurs in the private sphere of two men at close quarters on a soccer pitch.

The fact that Zidane did not elaborate on the nature of the insult only adds to the confusion. What horrible thing could Materazzi have said that would prompt such a reaction in a normal person?

The answer is ... nothing. Insults of that nature hurt the most when they come from someone who actually knows you (or your mother). Materazzi has never met Zidane's mother or his sister. He only knows Zidane as an opponent. And, if he did insult either one, most would have taken it and responded in kind.

Of course, the whole matter of whether Materazzi even insulted Mrs. Zidane is open to debate. The Inter defender denies it in the strongest terms: though he admits to insulting the French captain, albeit in a way which is common in sporting arenas everywhere. Who you believe on this point is a matter of personal choice. I've known Materazzi for eight years, I know that his mother died when he was 15, there is no doubt in my mind that, when it comes to mothers, he treads very carefully. But then, maybe I'm biased, because I know and like Materazzi.

But even if one chooses to believe Zidane, it's difficult to reach any other conclusion than this: his act was indefensible and he certainly did not help himself with his explanation, particularly when he suggested that he would do the exact same thing again if faced with the same situation.

A more plausible explanation for Zidane's actions is that he was simply exhausted and frustrated and he lost control, just as he did so many times before. It started in 1993, when he got into a fist fight with Marcel Desailly, it continued through a career which saw him stomp on a Saudi defender, punch Parma's Enrico Chiesa, head-butt a Hamburg player, lash out at Villarreal's Quique Alvarez and, finally, nail Materazzi.

Some people are like that. They're human. Zidane was blessed with an outrageous amount of talent, as well as the intelligence and work ethic to make the best of it. But he's not perfect. The price of all that was a short fuse, a red mist that occasionally engulfed him.

Zidane will no doubt be criticized for not apologizing. But there are few things worse than an empty apology. If he doesn't feel sorry, he shouldn't apologize. By not apologizing, at the very least, he is staying true to himself. If that's the way he is, so be it. You either love him or hate him.

It's genuinely sad that this happened in the final professional game of his career. But only the ignorant will remember him for this. Those who love the game will remember him for the thrills and delight he offered up so many times, for the sheer elegance of his game and for the way teammates looked up to him.

At least, that's what I'll remember.
POST-SCRIPT

Zidane's words - -and Materazzi's response -- will hopefully put an end to this squalid affair. But there is another category of people who really should not go unpunished.

Materazzi saw his name dragged through the mud by scumbags and muckrakers with nothing better to do.

A Paris-based group called "SOS-Racism" said Materazzi called Zidane -- who is of North African descent -- a "terrorist". So-called expert lip-readers confirmed this.

Mokhtar Haddad, Zidane's cousin, told the New York Times that Materazzi called him "either a terrorist or a son of Harkis" (a reference to the Algerian revolutionaries who helped defeat France in that country's war for independence).

Others freely called Materazzi a racist and a xenophobe.

Too bad for all these supposed experts and clairvoyants that Zidane himself confirmed that Materazzi's insult was not racist in nature and that he was never called a terrorist (much less a "son of Harkis" -- as if anyone with an IQ over 60 would ever believe that Materazzi has even heard of Harkis).

Those are the people who should be apologizing to Materazzi, the people who blackened someone's name, throwing out baseless accusations, the people who -- in their frenzy to figuratively burn someone at the stake -- accused an innocent man without a shred of credible evidence (and no, those lip-readers' fantasies do not constitute credible evidence). The people who ignored Zidane's teammate and possibly the French team's most intelligent and sensitive player, Lilian Thuram (a guy who knows a thing or two about racism) when he categorically said there "was no racial slur".

The worst thing about this is that when you make a baseless accusation of racism it's like the boy who cried wolf. When you next flag up racism, people will take your words with a bucketful of salt.

I hope Materazzi sues their behinds off and donates the proceeds to organizations that are serious about fighting racism in all walks of life.

[Imran Siddiqui]

That last part was perhaps the most absurd. Blaming God -- or whatever deity you believe in -- for your actions borders on the demented. Whatever your religion, one thing they all share is that there is a degree of free will, that God gives you the power to make your own decisions. The "God wanted it that way" defense (and it's not-so-distant cousin the "God made me do it" defense) is particularly hard to swallow.

Uh.. if people can praise God for helping the team win, why not blame him for the bad stuff? Haven't people been clamoring for this when someone says "I thank God..."

Too bad for all these supposed experts and clairvoyants that Zidane himself confirmed that Materazzi's insult was not racist in nature

WTF?!

When did Zidane EVER do that? Why does this guy think that since Zidane said it was an insult about his mother and sister that it was NOT racist?

Oh, I know why:

But then, maybe I'm biased, because I know and like Materazzi.

[LordShiva]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Uh.. if people can praise God for helping the team win, why not blame him for the bad stuff?

Because it's a lame thing to do. Nobody should be less angry with Materazzi if he were to say "Oh, God made me pinch Zidane's nipple."

[Spiffor]

Mokhtar Haddad, Zidane's cousin, told the New York Times that Materazzi called him "either a terrorist or a son of Harkis" (a reference to the Algerian revolutionaries who helped defeat France in that country's war for independence).

The guy is biased, and not a little. He is so eager to paint Materazzi's critics in a negative light that he says Zidane should feel insulted that his father fought against the colonist...

Actually, the Harkis are the Algerians who helped the French during the Algeria war. In Algeria, they're seen as collaborators to the oppressor.

Except for the Harkis themselves, this counts among the worst insults one can say to an Algerian. It's exactly akin to calling a Frenchman a "collabo" (in reference to those who helped the nazis during WW2)

[Spiffor]

Also, while I find the belief in fate to be fairly ridiculous, pinning it as "bordering on demented" is equally ludicrous.
There are plenty of people who believe that what happens was meant to be. Heck, even on rational Apolyton, how many people think that a romance will develop once it's "meant to be"?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Spiffor
Also, while I find the belief in fate to be fairly ridiculous, pinning it as "bordering on demented" is equally ludicrous.

There are plenty of people who believe that what happens was meant to be. Heck, even on rational Apolyton, how many people think that a romance will develop once it's "meant to be"?

Indeed... how many people, after a loved one dies of even self-inflicted causes, say "It was God's will he go".

[Joe Kick Ass]

You hardly needed to wait until the final match of Zidane's career to know he was temperamental and prone to violent outbursts. By now it should be considered a pretty ordinary event, so I don't really see why you need to suppose an extraordinary insult on Materazzi's part. Zidane's disciplinary record is as bad as any.

Excusing assault based on the defence of "God wanted me to!", is though, IMO, demented. Do you really want that as a get out of jail free card for any sort of assault, or just those by your favourite footballers?

Materazzi may be an arse, but do you really need to go that far to try and rationalise your support of a guy (Zidane) who's so violently irresponsible? It's not as if he made any effort to give any thought to the millions watching him in support; why not respond in kind?

[MikeH]

Originally posted by Cort Haus
England as fith best side looks a leeetle unrealistic to me. Top eight, maybe.

5 is in the top 8.

[reds4ever]

A tournament play over the last 25 odd years tends to support that we are in the top 5-8. We usually get to the quaters with the occasional semi (oh, err!!) thrown in.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by MikeH
5 is in the top 8.

No sh*t!

What I mean is top 8 rather than top 5.

[DAVOUT]

The bad guy, Zidane, has had 14 red cards during his 18 years of professionnal football player. This score of 0,8 red card per year is certainly bad. I would like to compare it with the good guy, Masterazzi, score.

[reds4ever]

'bout the same I'd guess....