This scares me

[Tiamat]

Didn't he obtain his objective on some level? He was there to attend a protest? He wore a shirt that he knew would offend someone at some point, possibly hoping that it would offend a cop or someone with whom he could have a possible altercation bringing his agenda to attention and giving him a reason to speak out or write out publicly as well as get a court date with again yet another chance to speak out.

Don't get me wrong as a daughter of someone who fought in WWII, Korea and Vietnam and would have willingly given his life for this country people like that irritate me, however, my father did fight for the right to maintain our constitution which also gives us the right to free speech not the right to purposely use it to inflame and insight. He accomplished what he set out to do......get attention.

[Tattila the Hun]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
BTW, how can we trust this guy's account of the event since he's obviously a liar and was there to attend a protest?

It's not like protesting is a 24/7 job. Once a demonstration is over, and you're just getting a cup of coffee, you are no longer demonstrating.

Of course, smart thing would be layerdressing, like Superman.

[Grandpa Troll]

Folks, I will say this:

I was in The U S Army and a Federal Police Officer. Federal Laws over Federal Building as well as Federal land have much more stringent rules than that of State or privately owned facilitites. Search/seizure and detainment policies are very liberal and wide reaching.

I will be surprised if he gets convicted but he was, as far as I can see, not abiding by the rules set forth.


Gramps

[Grandpa Troll]

Originally posted by Tiamat
Didn't he obtain his objective on some level? He was there to attend a protest? He wore a shirt that he knew would offend someone at some point, possibly hoping that it would offend a cop or someone with whom he could have a possible altercation bringing his agenda to attention and giving him a reason to speak out or write out publicly as well as get a court date with again yet another chance to speak out.

Don't get me wrong as a daughter of someone who fought in WWII, Korea and Vietnam and would have willingly given his life for this country people like that irritate me, however, my father did fight for the right to maintain our constitution which also gives us the right to free speech not the right to purposely use it to inflame and insight. He accomplished what he set out to do......get attention.

Awesome Tiamat, simply eloquently put.

While many of us Veterans dont necessarily agree with a lot of protests, most veterans will defend that right to have them.

Gramps

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by snoopy369
Regardless, the VA hospital has every legal right to ask him to leave, regardless of the reason (as long as he's not sick or whatnot). Once he refuses to leave, he is trespassing. It's not about 'protesting' - that of course may have been their reason for it, particularly since there was a protest that he was there to attend ...

Though it didn't seem the VA hospital asked him to leave, just the cop. Now if the VA hospital dude said you had to go and he stayed that's another thing.

His fine will be tossed out quicker than you can say "unjust arrest". He shouldn't have a problem getting a lawyer either, as I'm sure the ACLU will back him up if he needs it (ACLU )

[Tiamat]

Originally posted by Grandpa Troll


Awesome Tiamat, simply eloquently put.
Gramps

Thanks. You don't have to agree with someone to uphold the basic premise of the right to free speech. The guy is a tool! He did it on purpose to upset people. He was in a place where he knew at some point he would get a rise out of someone and it worked. But this is still America and it is still his right, even if he is a Tool!

[SpencerH]

He has a right to protest all he wants just not in a veterans hospital. Having woked beside one for 10 years I can say that they tend to be fairly pro-patriotism-type places but aside from that, they are relatively apolitical. If all he wanted was a coffee, all he had to do was wear a jacket. There are people moving through those hospitals who have been recently injured in the service of their country or they may be family members of such a person. None of those people need to be 'disrespected' by anyone no matter what their motives.

Nuff said. He was a burke. I would have expected more from someone who was a vet himself. If I was there, or some of the Alabama WWII vets I've met (who can get fairly feisty over such ****), he would've got more than a ticket.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Where did he ****ing protest?! He wore a SHIRT that said "Vets for Peace"! Have we all gone ****ing crazy?! WTF?!

It's a good thing he didn't wear a "Kerry for Prez" shirt or else he would have been cavity searched for engaging in traitorous protest .

[Q Classic]

I'm trying to see "Vets for Peace" as a "protest". I really am. But I can't.

That said, handguns are technically banned in Chicago.

[SpencerH]

From the veterans for peace website http://www.veteransforpeace.org/ many of whom appear to me to be 'just slightly' left of Che (the real one)

And I’m from Toledo, and I came to Chicago to participate in the final week of the month-long walk that Voices for Creative Non-Violence was doing from Springfield to the Great Lakes Navy Base, the processing facility, they call it there, for new recruits. And I came in to participate in the last week. And the day that I got in this past Friday, the group was at the South End of Chicago, and I was walking with them, and I do freelance journalism, and I was going to do some stories on the walk. And they stopped at the V.A. medical center for a while, and there was about ten of us or so at that point, and at one at a time we were taking bathroom breaks.

By his own words he was participating in a political demonstration but stopped off at the VA for a pee and coffee. He was asked to leave (since he was a participant as evidence by his wearing the T-shirt) by a cop (of some sort). He could have left and continued on his merry way and no one would've cared. He chose to make a scene.

Maybe he'll throw someone elses medals over the White House fence.

[Q Classic]

Don't get me wrong as a daughter of someone who fought in WWII, Korea and Vietnam and would have willingly given his life for this country people like that irritate me, however, my father did fight for the right to maintain our constitution which also gives us the right to free speech not the right to purposely use it to inflame and insight. He accomplished what he set out to do......get attention.

Also, I figure, since he's a vet, he also probably fought for the right to free speech. His and others, anyway. One would think.

Since he fought for that right, one could argue that he has a right to use it for whatever purposes he wants, so long as they remain inside the spirit of the law.

I'm no lawyer, but it strikes me as odd that if the speech is inteded to "inflame" and "incite" "opinions" that don't fit the "party line", they're some how bad, and people with those ideals shouldn't be exercising their right to free speech.

Since, y'know, they should be decent enough to just shut the **** up.

[Q Classic]

But this is still America and it is still his right, even if he is a Tool!

Funny thing about history, and America, too. Most of the greatness that is what we are as a people, as a human race, are because people who are *******s, who are tools, end up pointing the way to a better tomorrow.

Isaac Newton wasn't a nice guy. Nor was Thomas Jefferson, to name another.

===

Originally posted by SpencerH
He has a right to protest all he wants just not in a veterans hospital. Having woked beside one for 10 years I can say that they tend to be fairly pro-patriotism-type places but aside from that, they are relatively apolitical. If all he wanted was a coffee, all he had to do was wear a jacket.

Right, 'cause everybody carries a jacket around during the summer in Chicago.

If all the guards wanted was to get the guy (who only wanted the attention, apparently) to leave, all they had to do was ****ing ignore him.

There are people moving through those hospitals who have been recently injured in the service of their country or they may be family members of such a person. None of those people need to be 'disrespected' by anyone no matter what their motives.

Last I checked, there was no right to be not disrespected. As far as I can tell, there's no right to not be offended.

Do they need to be disrespected? No. But it seems as if this particular veteran was himself disrespected. I guess only veterans who hew to "party line" get the respect they all deserve.

Nuff said. He was a burke. I would have expected more from someone who was a vet himself. If I was there, or some of the Alabama WWII vets I've met (who can get fairly feisty over such ****), he would've got more than a ticket.

So the knives come out from other veterans to those veterans who are "traitors", who disagree with the "party line"?

[-Jrabbit]

The cop made it very clear that the arrest was based on the wearing of the shirt. This is, on the face of it, a violation of 1st amendment rights.

All the other stuff in this thread is just people projecting their own opinions and interpretations. Most of which are crap, none of which are germane.