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  • #136
    Originally posted by Urban Ranger


    Smoking causes damage to others, that's the issue.

    Being fat doesn't. Drinking doesn't. The only one that possibly cause damage to others is speeding.
    Long time member @ Apolyton
    Civilization player since the dawn of time

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    • #137
      Being fat, however, is an imposition upon others. We take up more space in planes and elevators.

      The results of drinking can harm others, as most non-white collar crimes are committed under the influence of alcohol or drugs.
      Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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      • #138
        Well Lancer, driving in general does.
        “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
        - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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        • #139
          Originally posted by Lancer
          You guys wrap your lips around the exaust pipe and take a drag? No, cars are for transportation. What are cigs for? Getting off cars requires something better to replace them. Not everyone can ride a bike, the old, the infirm, the people who live 50 miles from work. Getting off cigs requires a will, that's all. Cigs aren't FOR anything.
          Long time member @ Apolyton
          Civilization player since the dawn of time

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          • #140
            Cigs are for relaxation (like alcohol)... cars may be for transportation, but that doesn't mean you gotta drive an SUV, for example.
            “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
            - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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            • #141
              The relaxation comes from the temporary relief of withdrawl symptoms. If you quit you won't need cigs to relax. Agree on the SUVs.
              Long time member @ Apolyton
              Civilization player since the dawn of time

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              • #142
                Originally posted by Ming


                There are no absolutes like Plato would like you to believe... his whole argument is based on an absolute that just isn't true.

                One can not deny the statistics, and I'm not doing so...
                However... statistics also point to a lot of other things that will cause health problems. If you are going to pick on just one, that's a very slippery slope. Again, I have no problem if I'm charged extra for health care... but then it's only fair others that choose less healthy activities also do the same.

                Plato is trying to make the argument that one is an absolute while the other unhealthy habits aren't. That just isn't the case here and he is wrong. There is no proof to back up his claims of it being absolute or different than the other examples of unhealthy habits.

                There might be a difference in terms of "percentages"... but none are 100% or absolute as he seems to believe.
                No need to speak of me in the third person Dr. Ming.

                COPD, or more specifically in this case emphysema, is the damaged caused to the air sacs in the lungs that cause them to no longer deflate (the simple definition). Damage to these airsacs begins with the first exposure to tobacco smoke. No medical professional anywhere disputes this. Studies have shown that eventually this damage will cause emphysema. No matter how strong your genetics are, continually pounding your lungs with poison will cause irrepairable damage. Why anyone would be disputing this fact just boggles the imagination.

                Further, were you aware that apart from its use in tobacco products, nicotine is a scheduled poison under the Therapeutic Goods Act?

                Yes...a poison. Yet you claim, despite volumes of scientific evidence that nicotine causes lung disease, that it is not an absolute? Your logic simply astounds me...I really don't understand it.
                "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

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                • #143
                  Nicotine does have stimulating effects without any need for addiction.
                  “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                  - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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                  • #144
                    Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
                    Well Lancer, driving in general does.
                    Driving in general provides an economic benefit that vastly outweighs any possible harm it causes.

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                    • #145
                      Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
                      Cigs are for relaxation (like alcohol)... cars may be for transportation, but that doesn't mean you gotta drive an SUV, for example.
                      Plenty of people actually do need SUV's...

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                      • #146
                        Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
                        Cigs are for relaxation (like alcohol)... cars may be for transportation, but that doesn't mean you gotta drive an SUV, for example.
                        You have no idea how much i miss the morning cig with coffee on the patio. Even today...some 3 months after being pretty much forced to quit how badly I miss them. Imagine...missing putting a poison in your body! How ridiculous is that!?!

                        Still, it speaks volumes to the addictive power of nicotine...just as some in this thread reveal volumes about the rationalization powers of the addicted.
                        "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

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                        • #147
                          Originally posted by Kuciwalker
                          Plenty of people actually do need SUV's...
                          For what? If you want to transport stuff rent a U-Haul or a pickup.
                          “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                          - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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                          • #148
                            Originally posted by PLATO
                            You have no idea how much i miss the morning cig with coffee on the patio. Even today...some 3 months after being pretty much forced to quit how badly I miss them. Imagine...missing putting a poison in your body! How ridiculous is that!?!

                            Still, it speaks volumes to the addictive power of nicotine...just as some in this thread reveal volumes about the rationalization powers of the addicted.
                            Uh.. and alcohol is any different?
                            “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                            - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                            Comment

                            • #149
                              Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
                              Nicotine does have stimulating effects without any need for addiction.
                              I actually read a study several years ago that smoking stimulated centers of the brain that increased mathematical thinking for up to 20 minutes.
                              "I am sick and tired of people who say that if you debate and you disagree with this administration somehow you're not patriotic. We should stand up and say we are Americans and we have a right to debate and disagree with any administration." - Hillary Clinton, 2003

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                              • #150
                                Originally posted by Kuciwalker


                                Plenty of people actually do need SUV's...
                                People with 3+ bathrooms?
                                Long time member @ Apolyton
                                Civilization player since the dawn of time

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