We need an amendment

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Zkribbler


Dunno. But if this abomination ever gets passed, the first thing I'll probably do is burn a flag in protest.

gutsy move.

[Vesayen]

Originally posted by Zkribbler


Dunno. But if this abomination ever gets passed, the first thing I'll probably do is burn a flag in protest.

I have gone to political protests and rallys before but i've never broke the law to protest... I think i'd join the nearest "burn in" I could find....... or maybe host a website "flagburners.com" where people can upload pictures of themselves burning american flags in protest.

I have given alot of thought latley to leaving America... except where would I go which is much better off?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Geronimo
so what? That's easily avoided. it just forces us to enunciate instead of relying on one dramatic and extremely vague metaphor. It can't stop the message. It's utterly pointless and irrelevant except as a means of opening a new form of civil disobedience. Now people can pack the jails and burn the flag at the same time.

Yeah, who cares if Congress wants to ban a mode of expression. That doesn't raise any red flags. Oh, we can move on to other modes of expression... that's... comforting.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Vesayen



It shows our political process is so corrupt and our citizenry so amazingly, unbelievably unatentive and stupid when it comes to politics and our goverment, that something like this almost went to the state legislatures.

corruption is about subverting the government for personal gain, imho. This just demonstrates that our politicians are clueless about their roles as civil servants.

[chequita guevara]

I've never burnt a flag.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui




Yeah, who cares if Congress wants to ban a mode of expression. That doesn't raise any red flags. Oh, we can move on to other modes of expression... that's... comforting.

pretty much. It's not like the public has this long laundry list of hot button censorship strategies that they could hope to enshrine in the constitution. Really after this what else could they do? be specific. I can't think of anything else they could realistically drum up support for in the area of suppression of freedom of speech.

[Vesayen]

Originally posted by Geronimo


corruption is about subverting the government for personal gain, imho. This just demonstrates that our politicians are clueless about their roles as civil servants.

No, they know what their role is, they ignore it. The Republican congress and the Republican president have done SO MANY things which are morally questionable or flat out illegal I really am loosing track.... I try to form a mental list from time to time and loose track pretty quick.

They know their role, they ignore it for personal gain.

In this instance, they get to tow the party line and pretend to be patriots to DUMB **** HILLBILIES IN THE MIDWEST AND THE SOUTH WHO DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT OUR GOVERMENT.

We'd be better off if we broke America into 2 countries. We'd have the north east and most of the west coast and pacific north west as "The United States of America" and we can rename the rest "Jesusland"-not a name I've come up with, obviously. Since we now have a department devoted to the “homeland”(In soviet Russia, jokes make you!), we could just call it Blue America and Red America. Red America can be oppressed by the despots they so deserve and the rest of us can get on with protecting civil liberties and expanding our freedom.

This partisan bull**** has crossed all lines of sanity in the last 6 years and just gets WORSE and WORSE and ABSOLUTLEY NOTHING HAPPENS!

If you can't tell I AM PISSED OFF BECAUSE OUR GOVERMENT IS TURNING INTO A DESPOTIC PLUTOCRACY AND NO ONE IS ENRAGED BECAUSE MOST PEOPLE ARE TOO APATHETIC TO EVEN KNOW!!!!


GRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Vesayen



No, they know what their role is, they ignore it. The Republican congress and the Republican president have done SO MANY things which are morally questionable or flat out illegal I really am loosing track.... I try to form a mental list from time to time and loose track pretty quick.

They know their role, they ignore it for personal gain.

In this instance, they get to tow the party line and pretend to be patriots to DUMB **** HILLBILIES IN THE MIDWEST AND THE SOUTH WHO DON'T KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT OUR GOVERMENT.

We'd be better off if we broke America into 2 countries. We'd have the north east and most of the west coast and pacific north west as "The United States of America" and we can rename the rest "Jesusland"-not a name I've come up with, obviously. Since we now have a department devoted to the “homeland”(In soviet Russia, jokes make you!), we could just call it Blue America and Red America. Red America can be oppressed by the despots they so deserve and the rest of us can get on with protecting civil liberties and expanding our freedom.

This partisan bull**** has crossed all lines of sanity in the last 6 years and just gets WORSE and WORSE and ABSOLUTLEY NOTHING HAPPENS!

If you can't tell I AM PISSED OFF BECAUSE OUR GOVERMENT IS TURNING INTO A DESPOTIC PLUTOCRACY AND NO ONE IS ENRAGED BECAUSE MOST PEOPLE ARE TOO APATHETIC TO EVEN KNOW!!!!


GRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!

yeah but who really cares enough to pay attention to all that? sheesh.

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
I've never burnt a flag.

Neither have I...but surpressing the freedom to protest is too much.

[Geronimo]

I do want to say that there was a time when this issue concerned me a great deal and I think fear was justified.

This was certainly true in 1987 when the case of Texas v. Johnson was considered and also to a lesser degree again in 1990 when United States v. Eichman was being considered.

During that critical period there seemed to be the awful risk that the supreme court would make a decision that would allow the federal government to make whatever exception it pleased to the protections provided by the first ammendment. This would have essentially destroyed the first ammendment.

Fortunately, the outcome of those two cases now means that the 1st ammendment is stronger and more solid than ever. The very act of proposing a constitutional ammendment to achieve a ban on flag burning serves to undermine any but the broadest and most protective interpretations of the first ammendment. Narrow limited interpretations are no longer plausible. If such an anti flag burning ammendment as is discussed in this thread, were to pass it would only further establish the precedent that the only way to infringe on freedom of speech was with a specific constitutional ammendment.

Frankly I think freedom of speech was never as safe in this country as it was after those two supreme court decisions.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Geronimo
pretty much. It's not like the public has this long laundry list of hot button censorship strategies that they could hope to enshrine in the constitution. Really after this what else could they do? be specific. I can't think of anything else they could realistically drum up support for in the area of suppression of freedom of speech.

And you miss the point entirely. This is a ban on a very effective way of getting your message across. People pay attention when a flag is burned. Banning the flag burning itself is bad, not because of any slippery slope arguments that you seem to think the discontent is over (though it does tend to show exactly what the idiots think about the right to freedom of speech).

[Tuberski]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui


And you miss the point entirely. This is a ban on a very effective way of getting your message across. People pay attention when a flag is burned. Banning the flag burning itself is bad, not because of any slippery slope arguments that you seem to think the discontent is over (though it does tend to show exactly what the idiots think about the right to freedom of speech).

It is, the only thing I see when someone is burning sa flag is another idiot burning a flag.

I always think to myself, sure is stupid to buy a flag and burn it.

Save you money and yell like everyone else.

ACK!

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui


And you miss the point entirely. This is a ban on a very effective way of getting your message across. People pay attention when a flag is burned. Banning the flag burning itself is bad, not because of any slippery slope arguments that you seem to think the discontent is over (though it does tend to show exactly what the idiots think about the right to freedom of speech).

You could be wrong about this. I automatically tune out the message or agenda of anybody who resorts to flag burning to get my attention. The instinct is the same one that allows me to tune out commercials. It's a cheezy thoughtless transparent appeal to emotions. Not worth my consideration.

[Imran Siddiqui]

There is a reason that people want to ban it... ie, they don't tune it out and plenty of people who may be sympathetic at the time don't tune it out either.

[Admiral]

My 2 cents: the only thing that would make me want to burn a flag is if we pass an amendment banning it.