World Cup prediction thread - Knockout Phase

[Serb]

Originally posted by Cort Haus
Italy have played much of the best football in the tournament so far,

Yeah Esp. in Australia-Italy game. If not the ref's help (absolutely undeserved last minute penalty) there would be no Italy in final.

And they blame Ivanov for bad refeering?

[Winston]

A World Cup final with only one team sounds pretty boring.

[Cort Haus]

Lucas Neill fouled the Italian, imo. He's a dirty bastard for Blackburn every week in the EPL, and he impeded Fabio Grosso by throwing himself at his feet with no attempt to play the ball. Grosso would have been clear in on the goal without Neil's foul.

--

Blatter has since apologised to Ivanov, I gather, and I think most analysts eventually blamed the players for what happened.

[siron]

Italy-France 3-0
Germany-Portugal 4-3

[Dauphin]

Italy 1 - France 1
Germany 2 - Portugal 0

[Victor Galis]

Italy 0 - France 0
Germany 2 - Portugal 0

[Serb]

Originally posted by CyberShy

So, it's ref's fault that players of both teams played dirty as hell, he should have just step aside and let them kill each other, right?

Like I tried to say, the players weren't playing dirty

Perhaps we've seen different games then. It was the dirtiest match of the entire tournament, so far.

(Except Boularousz' attack on Ronaldo, which was more stupidity in my eyes then dirty though)

Who cares was it stupidity or intentional attempt to disable one of the best players of the opposing team (and quite a successful attempt, I should add, since Ronaldo was subsituted later, because of injury he got in this incident)?
Kicking an opponent's "balls area" is clearly a yellow card offence (At least a yellow card offence. In Portugal-England game, Rooney was IMMEDIATELY (red instead of first yellow) sent-off after alike incident, though in his case it was a 100% accident).

There weren't much faults (there were less faults in this game as in Italy-France!!!)

WTF?
Surely there were less faults in this game as in Italy-France game, since the total number of faults in the Italy-France match equals to ZERO, simply because of the fact, that they didn't play against each other at this tournament, YET. Perhaps you've already seen the final match between those two teams, which will be played the day after tommorow (July 9). In this case, I believe you've came into this world from the future (sorta like the Terminator series) to save our planet from the bad refereeing. If it's true, I think you should be banned from this prediction thread, because you have an enormous advantage over the rest of us - just mortals, who have not seen the final, yet.

And yes, there were some incidents when the game was paused, but that was more a result of the referee who didn't had control over the game.

This is niciest piece of bullsh!t, I've seen in this thread.
1) You blame the refeere for incidents among the players, for their unsportsmanlike behavior. How fair is that? The refeere isn't a God. He can't prevent other human beeing from acting like an as$hole. His job is to warn and if that human being has clearly crossed the line - to punish him, simple as that.
2) WTF is the "ref's lack of control of the game"? Can you explain what do you mean? From my point of view, when the ref sees an offence, which deserves a card, HE HAVE TO show that card. This is what FIFA demands from its refs. If I get you right, you suggest that the refeere should not show an absolutely deserved cards, just to "keep control of the game". Excuse me, but this is a bullsh!t. If not Ivanov's cards, the game could have pretty well ended as a total bloodbath. If doing his job (showing absolutely deserved cards to prevent a further violence) you consider as lack of control, then I think you have no clue about the basic role of referee on the field, at all.

I'm not saying that the cards should be in doubt or not.

That's the problem! To prove that Ivanov's refereeing was bad, you have to prove that the cards shown during that game were undeserved. If they were fully deserved by players (and I believe this is the case), then you have no reason to blame the refeery at all. Yes, there were many cards, but they were DESERVED God damn it.

I just say: the game wasn't hard and the players weren't playing dirty.

Again, probably we've seen different games.

Deco got a red card for trowing not giving the ball.

It was his SECOND YELLOW and according to FIFA "trowing not giving the ball" (time-wasting) IT IS A YELLOW CARD OFFENCE.
You again blaming Ivanov for doing his job - following the FIFA's directives regarding such incidents.

The red card for van Bronckhorst was for a fault that wasn't really bad either, surely not dirty.

Again, his fault against Tiago was his fully deserved SECOND YELLOW card (not strictly a red card). That falut didn't deserve a red card on its own, only a yellow, but since he already had one... you know the rules, right (two yellows automatically becomes a red)?

Of course Figo's headbutt was dirty, but that's about it. And I blame the ref for that.

You balme a ref for Figo's unsportsmanlike behavior?
The ref even didn't see that incident (which Figo perfectly knew seeing that the ref has turned around to deal with other incident that caused the halt of the game in the first place, FIGO ). Figo got his yellow, only thanks to linesman (he is Russian too, so feel free to blame him, as well), who made a signal about that fault.

Keep your money where your mouth is, name all dirty faults that were committed. Prove that this game was dirty. I think that most people just say that the match was dirty because there were 4 red cards.

1) You BLAME the refeery, not I do. You think that he did his job pretty bad (that assume the cards shown, were undeserved), so it's all up to YOU to PROVE you right, since it's you who make charges, NOT ME. The defending side has always (at least in civilized countries and civilized discussions ) an advandage of presumption of innocence - it's your job to prove that "my client" is guilty, not my job to prove that he is not.
2) You believe in pure statistics. I believe my own eyes. The game was dirty as hell. Comparing this match's percentage of cards in total number of faults commited, to alike statistics in other games, is totaly wrong. Because, this comparison CANNOT fully describe the level of commitment, the desire of players of both teams to WIN AT ALL COSTS and their complete disregard of FAIR PLAY principles (the Dutch "not giving the ball" behavior after the Portugueses kicked it out to let the docs take care about the injured player, is the CLEAR DEMONSTRATION how low players felt in their desire to win the game. It's just an episode, but it descrides the attitude of both teams towards each other during the entire match very well).

Btw, Blatter apologized for publicly insulting the referee. He didn't say that he thought that the referee did a good job.

He just admited he was a moron. First FIFA demands from its refs to show cards for shirt-pulling, diving, elbowing, time-wasting, etc., then the president of FIFA complains that the referee who strictly followed those instructions "deserved a yellow card himself".
That's called idiocy.

p.s. CyberShy, I can understand you dissappointment. I cheered for Netherlands too (and bet in this thread on your victory in that match). I love your football team and its coach. My respect for Dutch football originates from my childhood. I was a 11-years old kid when Marco van Basten scored an absolutely amazing goal vs. team USSR in Euro Cup final of 1988. That year we had the best football team ever in our entire history, that was the year when our national team won the Olympic games in Seoul (defeated BRASIL!). But, unfortunately for us, at Euro Cup 1988, Holland had the best national team in its entire history, imho, as well (Rijkaard, Koeman, Gullit, van Basten, those were the names. ). So, I can feel your pain more than you can imagine (in 1988, after kicking your arses at group stage, we later kicked the arses of such grands as England and Italy, just to be defeated by you in the final :still crying: Can you imagine what kind of shock it was for a little 11-years old Soviet creature like me?). But it was a well-deserved victory. Gullit & van Basten were two best players of that tournament, no doubt. Your goalie, who reflected the penalty was a total bastard too. And Marco's goal was just incredible! He is the one of greatest football players EVER.
It's a pitty your team didn't go further this time, but van Basten is still so young. I believe that his victories, as a coach, still lays ahead and I hope that he will achieve as a coach the same level of perfection he achieved as player. He is JUST GREAT!!! And it's not his fault what happened, but it's neither a ref's fault. The team Portugal provoked you with their dirty play, and UNFORTUNATELY instead of showing the iron discipline, your team retaliated the same way with its full strengh. That resualted in the circle of violence and the most dirtiest (but I must admit, the most exiting and thrilling match (I actually love the warfare) of that championship. WOW! I've posted in p.s. more than in the rest of my post I really think this thread is not an appropriate place for discussing the refs. Perhaps we should move on somewhere else?

[Solver]

Italy 2 - 1 France
Germany 2 - 2 Portugal

One can hope that at least the last two games would have goals...

[Serb]

One can hope that at least the last two games would have goals...

I hope so

[Datajack Franit]

At least the overall number of people giving Italy a chance for victory has increased from the semifinal prediction (just me and Siron)

[duke o' york]

Originally posted by Serb
Rooney was IMMEDIATELY (red instead of first yellow) sent-off after alike incident, though in his case it was a 100% accident).

You clearly don't know Rooney like we Britishers do.
The glue-sniffing dirty Blue get.

[Serb]

Originally posted by duke o' york
You clearly don't know Rooney like we Britishers do.

Perhaps, but've seen that episode. It started with the clear fault commited against Rooney. Had Rooney acted like the Portugueses did and just dive, that could have been a yellow for his foe. But he keep fighting and during the fight accidentally placed his foot somewhere near to the testicles of the guy (laid on the groud) who tried to chop him down a half of second ago. It was all the Portuguese player fault, he unsuccessfully tried to break Rooney down. Sending-off Rooney for that episode was just plain wrong.

[Ecthy]

Originally posted by Victor Galis
Italy 0 - France 0
Germany 2 - Portugal 0

Would be fun to see Italy lose another final in penalties after 1994

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Datajack Franit
At least the overall number of people giving Italy a chance for victory has increased from the semifinal prediction (just me and Siron)

Well, during the match against Germany, the Italians have shown us that they aren't only brilliant cheats, but also brilliant players as well

[Lord Avalon]

I saw a broadcast when Eric Wynalda was in the studio with Giorgio Chinaglia, and Wynalda brought up Baggio, and Chinaglia didn't want to talk about that.