Football: Rushing the field

[DanS]

Originally posted by reds4ever
People died, so they stopped it.

The only problems of that sort that I have heard of in the US, is the goalposts being torn down and hurting people on the way down. Nowadays, the goalposts are larger and more substantial than they were once upon a time, so there is more potential for injury or death. But even so, I have heard of remarkably few instances of injury and death because of this.

[DanS]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
So what, you just wait until some sort of riot develops before you take any safety measures, no matter the potential threat?!

2000 people storming the field (and probably a decent amount of them drunk) is not something you want to persist for very long.

Again, your argument is baffling. The 2,000 people who stormed the field were already in the stadium. If they were a threat to riot on the field, they were a threat to riot in the stands.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I think the baffling argument is to say that the University should have just let 2000 people storm the field without taking security measures.

And no, Dan, standing or even sitting in their seats in the stands is far different than rushing the field in terms of potential threats to riot or for injury. Makes me wonder if you ever have done both.

[DanS]

Cite one example of US fans rioting on the field after storming it. I would be interested to hear about it.

Minus this one fan, apparently nothing untoward happened on the field. Just celebration.

[Imran Siddiqui]

This is European soccer, btw (were I've mostly heard this sort of thing happen):

http://riotporn.blogspot.com/2006/05/swiss-football-riot.html

And an interesting "The NCAA News" article:

http://www.ncaa.org/news/2003/20030721/active/4015n03.html

Though some people might be surprised this effort is being launched in Division III -- a group not usually associated with the overall problems of intercollegiate athletics -- Mitrano said he and his colleagues agree that sportsmanship issues are as prevalent in the nonscholarship division as they are in Division I -- they're just not televised as much.

Sportsmanship initiatives usually conjure up images of trying to deter students from storming the field to tear down the goal posts or to control conditions that spark postgame riots after championship contests -- typically Division I concerns.

VT Magazine:

http://www.vtmagazine.vt.edu/fall04/feature5.html

The Maryland publicity is only one example of what the NCAA--which hosted a sportsmanship and fan behavior summit in February 2003--considers to be a recent nationwide increase in the incidence of negative fan behavior. Last fall, the organization announced its findings on the issue of fan behavior, noting that although there are many positive traditions, such as fight songs and cheers, "hostile traditions inconsistent with the values of sports have also crept into intercollegiate athletics (e.g., storming the field and tearing down goal posts, postgame riots)." The NCAA report cites 12 examples of such incidents, including the 2002 West Virginia-Virginia Tech football game, after which, it notes, "West Virginia students set fires on campus and tore down the goal posts at Mountaineer Field, even though the game was won at Virginia Tech's stadium."

A blog posting of Case Western University, copying an article by the Crhonical of Higher Learning:

http://blog.case.edu/casedaily/2006/01/18/case_daily_special_message_from_president_hundert

When Pennsylvania State University’s resurgent football team scored a victory last October against its archrival from Ohio State University, throngs of students rushed the field and set off something of a postgame riot. Overwhelmed, campus police had difficulty identifying the perpetrators and made only two arrests on game day. But less than a week after the game, Tyrone Parham, the university's assistant director of police, got an unexpected tip: Several students had posted pictures online of their friends storming the field. Campus police officers logged onto Facebook, the immensely popular social-networking site, and found a student group titled, unsubtly enough, “I Rushed the Field After the OSU Game (And Lived!)”

[DanS]

Again, inapposite. They are describing separate events: rioting and rushing the field. In the only one of the quotes that mixes the two ("[S]omething of a post-game riot"), the language isn't very descriptive, I think you'll agree.

Besides, AFAIK, the riots usually happen later on in the night, after much more drinking has occurred in an unsecured environment.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I'll try this in another post:

http://www.ericmcerlain.com/offwingopinion/archives/week_2002_11_24.php

A Saturday Of Rioting. . . Was what America was treated to by football fans at a number of college campuses on what is now being billed as "rivalry weekend" -- the Saturday where traditional college football foes tangle for yearly bragging rights. And now that Matt Drudge has linked to this story recounting the mayhem in Ohio, the Carolinas, California and Washington State, I think we can expect to see some major media attention over the next few weeks.

The worst of it came in Columbus, where Ohio State fans celebratred clinching the Big 10 championship and a trip to the Fiesta Bowl by storming the field at "the Shoe." If you didn't see it, here's the picture of the day, showing a sheriff's deputy dousing some moron with pepper spray as he tries to prevent "fans" from pulling down the goalposts. I guess the cops felt like the possibility of a riot was pretty high, as the deputy is wielding a pepper spray bottle the size of a jug of weed killer. As you might have imagined, the deputy and his compatriots failed to stop the rioters.

Of course, the fun didn't stop there, as the crowd spilled into the streets of Columbus to continue the fun -- with predictable results.

In light of these events, perhaps it's time to review some of the elements of the "Free Market Sports Fan's Manifesto" that I wrote last June. I think one item in my list bears repeating:

10. Thou shalt not riot after your team wins. Be magnanimous in victory, because after all, you're just a fan, and you haven't won a damn' thing -- not even the right to act like an animal.

I'm not exactly holding my breath for this to happen.

UPDATE: Looks like the police in the good city of Columbus will be consulting the videotape when it comes to tracking down Saturday's troublemakers.

[DanS]

as the deputy is wielding a pepper spray bottle the size of a jug of weed killer

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by DanS
Again, inapposite. They are describing separate events: rioting and rushing the field. In the only one of the quotes that mixes the two ("[S]omething of a post-game riot"), the language isn't very descriptive, I think you'll agree.

Besides, AFAIK, the riots usually happen later on in the night, after much more drinking has occurred in an unsecured environment.

What, you do think tearing down your OPPONENT'S goal posts isn't conducive to starting a riot? Come on, storming the field is like a mosh pit.

Storming the field can most definately lead to riots and in fact many of those after game riots are carry overs from fans who have rushed the field and taken down the goal posts. In plenty of schools, there is a wide enough opening to take the goal posts out of the stadium and some school traditions involve throwing it in the river (or whatever body of water nearby).

It's why Penn State has riot police on had. It's why more and more college football stadiums have video cameras to catch these rioters/stormers.

[DanS]

What, you do think tearing down your OPPONENT'S goal posts isn't conducive to starting a riot?

I'm confused. I think you're referring to the West Virgina quote, but in that one, they tore down their own goal post in their own stadium, even though the game was played at their opponent's stadium.

Mixing it up with the opposing teams' fans certainly would be cause for concern.

[DanS]

In plenty of schools, there is a wide enough opening to take the goal posts out of the stadium and some school traditions involve throwing it in the river (or whatever body of water nearby).

Yes, these are important, hands-on projects for the engineering students.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by DanS
I'm confused. I think you're referring to the West Virgina quote, but in that one, they tore down their own goal post in their own stadium, even though the game was played at their opponent's stadium.

I'm referring to events that have occured in other games.

http://espn.go.com/sportsbusiness/s/2002/1120/1463785.html

That Iowa's fans ripped down a goalpost in the Metrodome last week was a break from tradition. It is believed the last time an opposing team tore down a goalpost was when students at the University of California tore down a goalpost at Stanford after losing the 100th edition of the "Big Game" in 1997.

(written in 2002)

Those are the more provocative acts, which are just daring the other team's fans to come down and fight.

However, there is a mob mentality even when the home team fans storm the field. Hell, like in the WVU-VTech game, the fans were in such a frenzy that they came back to THEIR campus and were still juiced enough to tear down their own posts!

There is a reason there has been a large crackdown on storming the field recently and Penn State isn't the only university with riot police on the field. They are there to stop riots before they get going.

[DanS]

I think you're misreading the logistics. The WVU students weren't at the game. Away students aren't allotted many/any tickets. Rather, the WVU students were on the WVU campus.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

cal

[Locutus]

People have died as a result of it in the past, so whatever measures are needed to prevent it should be taken. But this was an issue 20 years ago, why are you bringing it up now?