Why should I stay a republican?

[chequita guevara]

As far as tort reform goes, I'm totally against it. That's yet another GOP snow job to **** over the little guy to help big money. Just because a handful (relatively) of frivolous cases cause problems is no reason to throw the baby out with the bathtub (not just the bathwater). If the fact that some people abuse the systerm were enough to cause you to want to do away with it, in order to be logically consistent, you'd have to do away with everything that can be abused: police, the military, insurance, food, marriages, people, etc.

[Lancer]

It's way out of control Che, sorry. I watched a security vid on TV where a bus in the inner city was rear ended. People ran, pushed and beat their way onto that bus to get in on the lawsuit. If there were loser pays, then by using that security video the bus company could have attached the wages of any of those people with a job.

We're going to disagee on this one Che.

[Vesayen]

Originally posted by Lancer
To express your freedom and therefore to sustain it.

Now given that reason to vote(and I think that is a GOOD reason)......

Suppose you are a libretarian. You should realize it is not currently possible to bring about libretarian change which is desirable-though it is still possible to say "I am a libretarian", it will not have any actual EFFECT. Your liberty won't be maintained JUST because you express your desire.

Nor does saying you support the libretarian viewset and voting for a libretarian now, make it even the smallest iota more likley a libretarian will win in the distant future.

So look at the options which are currently available. We have Republicans who have for 6 years taken away our rights and **** on the constitution for big money and we have the democrats, who have not.

Given those 2 real choices, would you rather express your opinion to no effect, or express your opinion, and have an effect to achieving what you desire?

[Lancer]

"Your liberty won't be maintained JUST because you express your desire."

I disagree.

The old deal that I have to vote for these guys because I don't believe in those guys has been around forever and is why no one who has a chance is worth a damn.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
As far as tort reform goes, I'm totally against it. That's yet another GOP snow job to **** over the little guy to help big money. Just because a handful (relatively) of frivolous cases cause problems is no reason to throw the baby out with the bathtub (not just the bathwater). If the fact that some people abuse the systerm were enough to cause you to want to do away with it, in order to be logically consistent, you'd have to do away with everything that can be abused: police, the military, insurance, food, marriages, people, etc.

Handful?? it's an immense industry! a racket! IIRC lawyers are the highest paid proffesion in the country. That is a huge red flag all by itself.

Anyway, why do all tort reform opponents seem to think that unless a lawsuit is declared frivolous by a judge then it can do no harm? jesus christ che the lawsuits that do the most harm are the ones where nobody within the system sees anything out of the ordinary and it rolls through forcing money to change hands with great gobs of it sticking to the fingers of the lawyers.

A lawsuit doesn't have to be "frivolous" to do immense harm or be grossly dysfunctional.

Lawsuits effectively act like taxes as far as economic consequences with the difference that the money is given to individuals and lawyers instead of the to government.

I don't want the current tort system reformed because it can be abused I want it to be reformed because currently it is structured such that it begs to be abused. It's the perfect get rich quick scam. Really it's the only get rich quick scam because all of the other ones don't work.

I may have to start a thread on this so I don't spam up lancer's thread but that will require more work to do it justice than I'm currently motivated to provide. I'll make a thread later on I think.

[OzzyKP]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
As far as tort reform goes, I'm totally against it. That's yet another GOP snow job to **** over the little guy to help big money. Just because a handful (relatively) of frivolous cases cause problems is no reason to throw the baby out with the bathtub (not just the bathwater). If the fact that some people abuse the systerm were enough to cause you to want to do away with it, in order to be logically consistent, you'd have to do away with everything that can be abused: police, the military, insurance, food, marriages, people, etc.

Lawsuits are also used by the big guys to destroy their opponents.

For example teen behavior modification camps (gulag schools) make loads of money from abusing kids. Terrible stuff goes on in these places. Yet activists trying to expose these torture camps keep getting slapped with junk lawsuits by the companies. The companies can afford to file libel & slander cases that they know they'll lose because they know the activists can't afford to fight back.

So they effectively silence those who want to expose the truth with money and lawyers. It's so ****ing frustrating.

Now I don't know whether any of the proposed tort reforms will address this problem at all, maybe they cover an entirely different area of the law, I haven't looked into it. But this kind of abuse of the system does make me sick.

[civman2000]

Originally posted by Geronimo


Handful?? it's an immense industry! a racket! IIRC lawyers are the highest paid proffesion in the country. That is a huge red flag all by itself.

Actually, it may be a huge red herring. I'm having trouble finding useful statistics, but I suspect that only a rather small percentage of all lawyers are involved in these sorts of cases. A large portion of lawyers (I would guess at least around a third, though I don't know) never or hardly ever set foot in a courtroom.

The best actual evidence I can find is the following (http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos053.htm):

Lawyers held about 735,000 jobs in 2004. Approximately 3 out of 4 lawyers practiced privately, either as partners in law firms or in solo practices. Most salaried lawyers held positions in government or with corporations or nonprofit organizations. The greatest number of lawyers working in government were employed at the local level. In the Federal Government, lawyers work for many different agencies, but are concentrated in the Departments of Justice, Treasury, and Defense. Many salaried lawyers working outside of government are employed as house counsel by public utilities, banks, insurance companies, real estate agencies, manufacturing firms, and other business firms and nonprofit organizations. Some also have part-time independent practices, while others work part time as lawyers and full time in another occupation.

This doesn't really affect your argument, but the high salaries of lawyers have little to do with any need for tort reform, I think.

[OzzyKP]

The notes about salaried lawyers are talking about the 1 in 4 that aren't in private practice.

[Geronimo]

edit- bah. I'm going to wait for a dedicated thread

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Lancer
Abortion is a litmus test for me. That said, I don't believe anymore that the republicans are truly against it. It isd a device to get votes and then forget about.

My sentiments exactly.

Gays, equal rights, definately! No special rights however.

Oh but it's such a lovely scapegoat issue, and the victims are so relatively few in number that they're quite harmless too.

National defense...all is going fairly well imo. Rare opinion, but there you go.

:Lying in order to start a war, or being too incompetent to make a reasonable assessment of a situation based on the availabel evidence ought to be impeachable offenses even if it is possible that something good might come of it. Modern warfare is too destructive to be pursued frivilously.

The economy, niether the dems or repubs are trying to fix things. They do whatever gets them the big $$$ from the corporations who they both really represent. The corporations stand for their CEOs bottom line, not the people or nation.

[Lancer]

Geronimo, I never complain about such interesting stuff, don't consider it spam and do it to everyone elses threads so go for it guy.

[Lancer]

DrS, on Iraq I think we need to stay focused on getting a democracy in there. I no longer consider that I was lied to regarding WMDs. Everyone thought they had them, hell they used them a couple of times.

I'm all thumbs up on the rest of your post.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Tort reform is BS. I work with ERISA law, which has no punitive damages. ERISA is, basically, pension and health care law. With the lack of punitives, companies just totally try to screw over participants because they know if they get sued, all they have to do is just pay the benefits asked and then there is no case. Of course a lot of the participants having benefits denied can't sue... hopefully they are smart enough to call the government, but even then, with limited resources, sometimes, they'll be left by the wayside, unfortunately.

OTOH, insurance companies are under state law and CAN be sued using punitive damages in some cases. This has helped deal with the insurance company whose first action is to deny coverage and make the particiant appeal the decision (and no that isn't just in the movies, it happened in real life a lot).

[Lancer]

Limits?

[Vesayen]

Originally posted by Lancer
"Your liberty won't be maintained JUST because you express your desire."

I disagree.

The old deal that I have to vote for these guys because I don't believe in those guys has been around forever and is why no one who has a chance is worth a damn.

Bluntly put? If you really want a third party to rise to prominance GET OFF YOUR FAT ASS and do something. Your desire, does not do anything. It will take a collosal, monumental effort to get a third party to any place in the political spectrum. Contact the third party you support now and find out how you can help.

Your vote for a third party right now, is worthless. If you care enough, do more. If not, then you don't care enough to matter.