Where seniors at my high school are going

[lord of the mark]

Re: Re: You forget

Originally posted by GePap


Well, given that catchment area, you are probably right.

In fact the catchment area includes the remoter and less affluent counties of Prince William and Loudon. And Fairfax has plenty of less affluent folks, living in apartments and townhomes, and in the southern third of the county. It also includes a very fast growing hispanic population, mainly central american.

Sure there arent many poor kids at Fairfax, though there are certainly plenty of middle class kids who dont have close to 5 bathrooms. But then from what i recall of Stuy, there werent many poor kids there either - it was affluent Manhattanites, or middle class kids from Queens, brooklyn, and Staten Island.

[Bosh]

Re: I kid because I care

Originally posted by pchang
However, if you think that legacies and donor $$ make no difference, you are naive.

Exactly, my parents are teachers (Maine teachers get ****ty pay but it isn't poverty) and I got more financial aid in college (Wesleyan University), in most cases far and away more than anyone I knew...

Now I still have a **** load of college debt years later

[Kuciwalker]

Re: I kid because I care

Originally posted by pchang
However, if you think that legacies and donor $$ make no difference, you are naive.

At least 70-80% of students at TJ don't get help from legacies. And actually a lot of students are accepted to good schools but don't go for money reasons. (Conversations about college can get a little uncomfortable because of this - "Why aren't you going to Princeton?" "UVA is a lot cheaper.")

[Agathon]

Re: I kid because I care

Originally posted by pchang
However, if you think that legacies and donor $$ make no difference, you are naive.

They make a lot less difference than they used to.

But it's still a racket. People whose parents can afford things like private tutoring and schools that focus on college application preparation have a massive advantage over those that don't. The sheer amount of money and time spent by some people on trying to get their kids into an Ivy League school is mind boggling. There are industries supported by this phenomenon.

When you look at it, it is sort of insane. In many countries the obession with ranking universities does not really exist. And I'd have to say that is correct. As long as universities are reasonably well-funded, you'll get a comparable undergraduate education from any of them. I went to a small school, yet my undergraduate education was comparable to many people who had been to far more illustrious academies (although we had a pretty good department at the time I was there). Generally, New Zealanders who go overseas for graduate work tend to find that their undergraduate education is as good as anyone's, so it isn't just me.

But I suppose that anything that justifies the American middle class in a war of competitive consumption with regard to their children is regarded as justified a priori.

[Kuciwalker]

But it's still a racket. People whose parents can afford things like private tutoring and schools that focus on college application preparation have a massive advantage over those that don't.

I go to a public school. As in, completely free. We have a fair number of lower-income people, though probably no one who is really poor.

[pchang]

No such thing

as completely free schools nowadays. Every school seems to have some parent organization strong arming you with various fund raisers to supplement the school budget, provide more classroom materials, provide gifts to teachers, etc.

[Kuciwalker]

Those things happen to be optional.

[pchang]

Sure

if you are immune to the scorn and enmity of all your neighbors.

[GePap]

Re: Re: Re: You forget

Originally posted by lord of the mark


In fact the catchment area includes the remoter and less affluent counties of Prince William and Loudon. And Fairfax has plenty of less affluent folks, living in apartments and townhomes, and in the southern third of the county. It also includes a very fast growing hispanic population, mainly central american.

Sure there arent many poor kids at Fairfax, though there are certainly plenty of middle class kids who dont have close to 5 bathrooms. But then from what i recall of Stuy, there werent many poor kids there either - it was affluent Manhattanites, or middle class kids from Queens, brooklyn, and Staten Island.

Everyone has a chance to get into Stuy, if they do well enough on the test. Its is a testiment to the failure of primary education in poor areas that the more affluent dominate the school.


And Northern Virginia is still an aflfluent area, even with pockets of poor people. Snd since when is a townhouse or apartment a sign of being poor??

[Kuciwalker]

Everyone has a chance to get into Stuy, if they do well enough on the test. Its is a testiment to the failure of primary education in poor areas that the more affluent dominate the school.

And a testament to the fact that more intelligent people, in general, earn more money.

[Jon Miller]

no *******...

it is that poor people have society against them (ie, there parents don't care, they don't have good support/examples, etc)

Jon Miller

[Kuciwalker]

Are you disputing the fact that being smarter, all else being equal, gives you an economic advantage? And that necessarilly that would lead to some correlation between wealth and intelligence?

[Jon Miller]

yep

Jon Miller

[Kuciwalker]

So does being smarter give you some sort of disadvantage? Or have no effect whatsoever on how much money you can earn?

[snoopy369]

Originally posted by Kuciwalker
So does being smarter give you some sort of disadvantage? Or have no effect whatsoever on how much money you can earn?

Being smarter generally comes from being affluent, rather than causing it. All other things equal is rather a significant qualifier... as they never are.

Certainly affluence makes far, far more of a difference on ultimate success than intelligence; i'd say enough of a difference to make the latter statistically insignificant. The ten people in America who overcame poverty to become highly successful are far, far outweighed by the millions who don't; and the number of people who WOULD be 'smart' by our definition (high GPA, IQ, education level) probably number in the millions. It's an awful lot easier to learn when you're able to escape a bad public school to a good private one, or to live in an area with a good public school; not to mention not having to work at 16 so your family doesn't go hungry, and all that.