Why Do Christians Condemn Alcohol?

[Harovan]

I got to tell our village pastor of this condemnation, when he goes to the pub across the street every god damn day. He might have missed it in his seminar.

[Japher]

funny, I acredit the existance of alcohol to christian monks.

[Barnabas]

Only some sects who think that when jesus turned water into wine, it was really grape juice, have problems with alcohol.

Catholics dont have a problem with it.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Why do polytubbies continually tar all christians with the brush of christian fundy theologies?

[Seeker]

"funny, I acredit the existance of alcohol to christian monks."

so funny, it needed to be said twice!!

duh people I know that most christians drink alcohol...I am wondering why there is this strange anti-alcohol movement in specifically american fundie xianity. It just seems so arbitrary and unrelated to the bible.

Thanks for answering me Che.

[Jon Miller]

"strong drink is a mocker" and other passages suggest the truth, which is that alcohol can facilitate bad behavior

anyone who disagrees with the above statement is a moron

JM

[MRT144]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
Why do polytubbies continually tar all christians with the brush of christian fundy theologies?

because christian fundies are that much louder than the other ones?

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Funny you mention that. Moderate view chucrches don't seem to get the air time that whack job ones do. I wonder why?

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
Also, beer halls were common meeting places for evil union organizers.

Yep that had to be it.

This more than any other reason. It was common knowledge that union sympathizers were devout satanists afterall.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

CBS, NBC refuse to air church's television advertisement

United Church of Christ ad highlighting Jesus' extravagant welcome called 'too controversial'

By J. Bennett Guess
United Church News

Nov. 30, 2004

CLEVELAND -- The CBS and NBC television networks are refusing to run a 30-second television ad from the United Church of Christ because its all-inclusive welcome has been deemed "too controversial."

The ad, part of the denomination's new, broad identity campaign set to begin airing nationwide on Dec. 1, states that -- like Jesus -- the United Church of Christ seeks to welcome all people, regardless of ability, age, race, economic circumstance or sexual orientation.

According to a written explanation from CBS, the United Church of Christ is being denied network access because its ad implies acceptance of gay and lesbian couples -- among other minority constituencies -- and is, therefore, too "controversial."

"Because this commercial touches on the exclusion of gay couples and other minority groups by other individuals and organizations," reads an explanation from CBS, "and the fact the Executive Branch has recently proposed a Constitutional Amendment to define marriage as a union between a man and a woman, this spot is unacceptable for broadcast on the [CBS and UPN] networks."

Similarly, a rejection by NBC declared the spot "too controversial."

"It's ironic that after a political season awash in commercials based on fear and deception by both parties seen on all the major networks, an ad with a message of welcome and inclusion would be deemed too controversial," says the Rev. John H. Thomas, the UCC's general minister and president. "What's going on here?"

Negotiations between network officials and the church's representatives broke down today (Nov. 30), on the day before the ad campaign was set to begin airing nationwide on a combination of broadcast and cable networks. The ad has been accepted and will air on a number of networks, including ABC Family, AMC, BET, Discovery, Fox, Hallmark, History, Nick@Nite, TBS, TNT, Travel and TV Land, among others.

The debut 30-second commercial features two muscle-bound "bouncers" standing guard outside a symbolic, picturesque church and selecting which persons are permitted to attend Sunday services. Written text interrupts the scene, announcing, "Jesus didn't turn people away. Neither do we." A narrator then proclaims the United Church of Christ's commitment to Jesus' extravagant welcome: "No matter who you are, or where you are on life's journey, you are welcome here." (The ad can be viewed online at www.stillspeaking.com.)

In focus groups and test market research conducted before the campaign's national rollout, the UCC found that many people throughout the country feel alienated by churches. The television ad is geared toward those persons who, for whatever reason, have not felt welcomed or comfortable in a church.


"We find it disturbing that the networks in question seem to have no problem exploiting gay persons through mindless comedies or titillating dramas, but when it comes to a church's loving welcome of committed gay couples, that's where they draw the line," says the Rev. Robert Chase, director of the UCC's communication ministry.

CBS and NBC's refusal to air the ad "recalls the censorship of the 1950s and 1960s, when television station WLBT in Jackson, Miss., refused to show people of color on TV," says Ron Buford, coordinator for the United Church of Christ identity campaign. Buford, of African-American heritage, says, "In the 1960s, the issue was the mixing of the races. Today, the issue appears to be sexual orientation. In both cases, it's about exclusion."

In 1959, the Rev. Everett C. Parker organized United Church of Christ members to monitor the racist practices of WLBT. Like many southern television stations at the time, WLBT had imposed a news blackout on the growing civil rights movement, pulling the plug on then-attorney Thurgood Marshall. The Rev. Martin Luther King Jr. implored the UCC to get involved in the media civil rights issues. Parker, founding director of the Office of Communication of the United Church of Christ, organized churches and won in federal court a ruling that the airwaves are public, not private property. That decision ultimately led to an increase in the number of persons of color in television studios and newsrooms. The suit clearly established that television and radio stations, as keepers of the public airwaves, must broadcast in the public interest.

"The consolidation of TV network ownership into the hands of a few executives today puts freedom of speech and freedom of religious expression in jeopardy," says former FCC Commissioner Gloria Tristani, currently managing director of the UCC's Office of Communication. "By refusing to air the United Church of Christ's paid commercial, CBS and NBC are stifling religious expression. They are denying the communities they serve a suitable access to differing ideas and expressions."

Adds Andrew Schwartzman, president and CEO of the not-for-profit Media Access Project in Washington, D.C., "This is an abuse of the broadcasters' duty to inform their viewers on issues of importance to the community. After all, these stations don't mind carrying shocking, attention-getting programming, because they do that every night."

The United Church of Christ's national offices -- located in Cleveland -- speak to, but not for, its nearly 6,000 congregations and 1.3 million members. In the spirit of the denomination's rich tradition, UCC congregations remain autonomous, but also strongly in covenant with each other and with the denomination's regional and national bodies.


###

Too controversial, ABC, CBS, ohhh please. So what could be the motivation?

[Japher]

Give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,

Then I gues ^that is very contriversial!!!OMG!!

[Lonestar]

Originally posted by SlowwHand
So if you see Baptists referenced, why do you expand to all Christians. A good Christian might go moderately.

Walk into a bar.
Mormons own the bar, but are seemingly disgusted by the patrons.
Those running out the back door trying not to be seen are Baptists.
Those with their head on the bar snoring are Catholics.
The moderate Methodist buys you a round.

[lord of the mark]

1. IIUC Baptist cite a line in proverbs about the evils of strong drink. Of course we Jews dont use Proverbs as a source of laws, generally speaking. Presumably they were looking for textual support for a 19th social position which reacted to the considerable social problem of alcohol in that era.

2. I dont know what Jesus drank, but there is evidence, IIUC, that wine in the Hebrew scriptures is at least sometimes used as a generic term for drinks made from grapes, including grape juice. As a general rule the laws wrt to wine (what makes it kosher or not, what blessing to say before drinking it, the fact that a Nazir - someone like Sampson who was dedicated to the service of G-d for like cant drink it) all apply exactly the same to grape juice.

3. In Judaism drinking of alcohol is considered proper - one should enjoy those pleasures that are allowed, and wine "gladdens the heart". But drunkeness is generally frowned upon, and IIUC there are various citations for this. OTOH drunkeness on the holiday of Purim, and to a lesser extent Simchat Torah, is considered proper.

"oy, oy, shiker ist a goy" "oh, no, the gentiles are drunk" drunken peasants being something of a security risk to eastern european Jews.

[lord of the mark]

Purim: To Drink or Not To Drink?
from Rabbi Professor David Golinkin

by Rabbi Professor David Golinkin
The Jewish people throughout history has always opposed drunkenness. That is the message of the stories of Noah and Lot (Genesis 9 and 19) as well as of the book of Proverbs (23:30-35). According to our Sages, Nadav and Avihu were killed because they were drunk (Leviticus Rabbah 20:9 and parallels), drunkenness leads to forbidden sexual relations (Ketubot 65a and Numbers Rabbah 10:3) and "there is nothing that causes a person greater lamentation than wine" (Sanhedrin 70b).

As a result, it is difficult to fathom the primary Talmudic source related to drinking on Purim (Megillah 7b): "Rava said: a person must get drunk on Purim until he cannot distinguish between 'cursed be Haman' and 'blessed be Mordechai'. Rabbah and R. Zeira made a Purim feast together. They got drunk.

Rabbah stood up and killed R. Zeira. On the morrow, Rabbah prayed for him and revived him. The following year, Rabbah said to him: ‘Come, let us celebrate the Purim feast together!’ R. Zeira replied: ‘Miracles don't happen every day!’ "

Rava's statement begs an explanation. R. David Abudraham explained that the Sages required drinking on Purim since all of the miracles in the days of Ahashverosh occurred at drinking parties (Sefer Abudraham, pp. 209-210). On the other hand, Rava was a vintner (Berakhot 56a and Bava Metzia 73a) and clearly liked to drink wine (Pesahim 107b). As for the strange story, Rabbi H. Z. Reines suggests that the entire episode is a Purim joke (Hadoar 5737, p. 266)!

Whatever the simple meaning is, it is clear that the poskim (halakhic authorities) throughout the generations felt very uncomfortable with Rava's demand to get drunk on Purim, and therefore each posek tried to circumvent the requirement. Here is a sampling of their rulings:
R. Ephraim (North Africa, 11th cent.) claimed that the story comes to cancel out Rava's statement and therefore one should not get drunk on Purim.
R. Alexander Zusslin Hacohen (Germany, 14th cent.) explained that "cursed be Haman" equals "blessed be Mordechai" in gematria - they both add up to 502! - and it requires less wine to become that intoxicated.
R. Yosef Haviva (Spain, 15th cent.) wrote that one should say funny things so that the beholders will think that one cannot distinguish between "cursed be Haman" and "blessed be Mordechai".
Maimonides (Egypt, 12th cent.) rules that "he drinks wine until he gets drunk and falls asleep...", and this ruling was adopted by Rabbi Moshe Isserles in the Shulhan Arukh (Poland, 16th cent.).
R. Natanel Weil (Germany, 18th cent.) explained: " ‘until’ - up to and not including, because otherwise he would reach the drunkenness of Lot".
R. Aaron of Lunel (Provence, 14th cent.) commented "that he should drink more than his normal custom in order to rejoice greatly and to make the poor rejoice and he shall comfort them...and that is true joy." This is the most original interpretation: that the purpose of drinking on Purim is to help us fulfill the mitzvah of mattanot la’evyonim (alms to the poor) and not simply to get drunk.
Finally, R. Menahem Hameiri (Provence, 14th cent.) said: "In any case, we are not commanded to get drunk ...for we were not commanded to engage in debauchery and foolishness but to have heartfelt joy which will lead us to the love of God and to gratitude for the miracles which he performed for us".
In recent years, we have witnessed a marked increase in the use of wine, alcohol and drugs by Israeli youth due to the dual influence of Western and Russian cultures. This increase has led, in turn, to an increase in traffic accidents and injuries. These are the ways of Noah, Lot and Ahashverosh, not of the Jewish people throughout its history. The poskim understood this significant difference. That is why they ruled: "heartfelt joy" - yes, "debauchery and foolishness - no. May we remember this crucial difference both on Purim and throughout the year. Conservative Judaism
About Conservative Judaism

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Rabbi Prof. David Golinkin
More Articles by Rabbi Prof. David Golinkin

Schechter Institute of Jewish Studies in Jerusalem



LOTM - I like the opinion of Rabbi Aaron of Lunel the best - get drunk enough that you start handing out money to the poor.

[The diplomat]

Re: Why Do Christians Condemn Alcohol?

Originally posted by Seeker
So how why the 'heck' do so many Christians, from a religion that explicitly commands them to drink and whose God (jesus) drank alcohol, condemn drinking and say that abstaining is godly?

The difference is between drinking and getting drunk. The Bible does not condemn drinking a little alcohol but it does urge Christians not to get drunk.

Ephesians 5:18 says,
Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit.

Note the expression "which leads to debauchery". The idea is that if you get drunk, you'll end up doing "crazy things" which aren't very Christian. The verse urges Christians to be spiritual instead of getting drunk and behaving inapropriately.

1 Tim 5:23 actually urges these particular Christians to drink a little wine:
23Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses.

So, the bible condemns drunkness, not responsible drinking.

I think the reason the Baptists and others condemn alcohol is as a safety measure against getting drunk. I think their reasoning is that if people drink a little, they might get tempted to get really drunk, so better to forbid drinking altogether to remove all temptation.