Hawking: We must colonize Space...or Die.

[Dis]

Originally posted by Lonestar


Ah yes, the ol "we should fix our problems here before we go somewhere else defense", the bulwark of the parochial nimcompoop.

Your immigrant ancestors would have been proud.

I still think we should face the real possibility that the laws of physics simply won't allow us to travel the universe.

We must fix this planet.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Dis


I still think we should face the real possibility that the laws of physics simply won't allow us to travel the universe.

We must fix this planet.

well it's easy enough to fix if by fix you mean make it capable of supporting a large human population for thousands even millions of years.

But if by fix this planet you mean indefinately preserve most of the diversity of the environment in a state that resembles what it historically was while we are living on it we will fail.

It's still a good idea to fight to preserve diversity in the meant time to buy us time, but that's the best we can really hope for so long as we live here.

[Dis]

fix as in fix global warming, and ensure energy is available for the future.

And yes I will concede that people thought it was impossible to cross the ocean into the new world. But I really don't think you can compare the two. One was based on superstition, where as today we are using scientific reasoning to determine that faster than light travel is not possible. And yes I know about wormholes and such.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by Dis
fix as in fix global warming, and ensure energy is available for the future.

And yes I will concede that people thought it was impossible to cross the ocean into the new world. But I really don't think you can compare the two. One was based on superstition, where as today we are using scientific reasoning to determine that faster than light travel is not possible. And yes I know about wormholes and such.

Interstellar travel wouldn't be necessary to reduce the level human activity on earth. The solar system has lots of stuff just lying around that no living thing currently makes any use of. With hard work we can build an immense amount of lebensraum up there.

This is assuming overall human fertility levels eventually match first world fertility levels. If instead the population just keeps growing we're screwed no matter what we choose to do, and the environment with us.

[Traianvs]

Originally posted by Lonestar
Until the Chinese, Muslims, or Japanese found and killed them.

History has proved that the "explorees" tend to be worse off by the "explorers:.

There's ample examples of conquered peoples exerting cultural influences on their overlords. So a stable and sane society could possibly change a barbarous and genocidal nation (unless the policy of those barbs is to wipe out the conquered tribe )

[Proteus_MST]

Originally posted by Dis

I still think we should face the real possibility that the laws of physics simply won't allow us to travel the universe.

But what´s possible, according to many theories is terraforming mars so that humans can live there. It´s nothing you can do within a few days, but after just a few hundred years of terrraforming human beings could possibly walk on the surface of mars without having to rely on spacesuits or breathing apparatus.

It will probably also be possible to fly to the next stars, even without the help of Kearny-Fuchida Drives or warp engines.
You "just" have to construct generation ships which are equipped with a self sustaining ecosystem (just like Ecosphere II, but, of course, much more stable), equipped with a generator which generates energy through all of the voyage, to produce the light needed by the photosynthetic organisms and of course warmth and what else is needed and with aenough fuel to initiate the slowdown maneuver uponj approaching the star system.

Originally posted by Dis

We must fix this planet.

I agree.
It will take several hundred years to create another "earth".
It won´t be of any use if, before this time, we´ll annihilate ourselves or slide back into stone age, due to wars or man made environmental disasters.

[Arcite]

Originally posted by Dis
fix as in fix global warming, and ensure energy is available for the future.

And yes I will concede that people thought it was impossible to cross the ocean into the new world. But I really don't think you can compare the two. One was based on superstition, where as today we are using scientific reasoning to determine that faster than light travel is not possible. And yes I know about wormholes and such.

Being a realist, the earth is heading towards a state of FUBAR. What the human race needs is an insurance policy. The farther out we can spread outselves the safer we will be, and the greater chance we will survive.

As of right now we have an orbiting space station...ok barely. But it works! In 20 years time there is no reason to doubt that there will be some kind of orbital hotel for rich people. Following that there will probably be something on the moon. So perhaps not in our lifetime...but in the next hundred years there should without a doubt be human colonies in space, on the moon, on astroids, maybe even mars.

--

oh and speaking of 'generation ships'... I think the more likely solution will be to perfect hybernation, or cryogenics to preserve us humans while an AI runs the 'ship'.

[Dis]

AI running the ship? What happens when it crashes to desktop. .

and yes I believe we could colonize near space. But they would always be reliant upon earth.

As for terraforming mars. That is something we should look into. If it could become self sufficient in a few hundred years, it's worth investing in.

[realpolitic]

Just what we need a McDonald's on the moon. Maybe there's a Galactic Zoning Code that could prevent such an atrocity.

Seriously, One thing about our FUBAR world that you don't realise Arcite, is that it relies on centralisation to be so distructive. If we colonise space, will we have the same problem? Certainly in any federation where transport times are measured in years or less, a few centralised powers could cause annilation, and any federation larger, might not be possible, because of energy costs.

No, we've reached the precipice because we haven't tamed our hatred. The situation is akin to giving a six-year-old a gun.

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by realpolitic
Just what we need a McDonald's on the moon. Maybe there's a Galactic Zoning Code that could prevent such an atrocity.

Seriously, One thing about our FUBAR world that you don't realise Arcite, is that it relies on centralisation to be so distructive. If we colonise space, will we have the same problem? Certainly in any federation where transport times are measured in years or less, a few centralised powers could cause annilation, and any federation larger, might not be possible, because of energy costs.

No, we've reached the precipice because we haven't tamed our hatred. The situation is akin to giving a six-year-old a gun.

Sure a Mcdonalds on the moon would be cool. Maybe it could be placed near the apollo 11 landing sight. But before we can hope to achieve such lofty goals we must first establish more basic infrastructure on the moon of a more banal sort. Having accomplished that we wouldn't have to stop with a single Mcdonalds! We could have a whole moon spanning burger peddling franchise! We could even have giant lunar Theme parks! with souvenoirs! wouldn't that be something grand!

It's beautiful visions like these that will help make space colonization a reality. Not small minded goals like a mere single mcDonald's restaurant on the moon.

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by Geronimo
Having accomplished that we wouldn't have to stop with a single Mcdonalds! We could have whole moon spanning burger peddling franchise! We could even have giant lunar Theme parks! with souvenoirs! wouldn't that be something grand!

How would that be any different than Dubai?

[Geronimo]

Originally posted by General Ludd


How would that be any different than Dubai?

dubai is just the proof of concept.

First do these things in a temperate inviting environment.

Next scale it up in a dry inhospitable desert environment.

Finally establish it on the moon.

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by Geronimo
Just because in the long term removing the human population from the earth will be necessary doesn't mean we neglect pursuing any immediate mitigating actions while we wait for such an exodus to be feasible.

Why would we want to completely move the human population off of Earth? That's not the point at all. The point is that spreading out to as many solar systems as possible is the best way to ensure human survival. There will still be people on Earth.

Sava, you and I are in pretty much complete agreement on this topic.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by General Ludd
If we'd given our own actions as much attention as we give spectactles like that, perhaps we could of helped prevent some of the environmental calamities of the past century, instead of expending so much time, effort, and resources for a stroll in a barren vacuum.

Other than environmental ills - we should fix these - there are other reasons to colonise space.

For starters, the sun will go nova and become a red giant in the far future. There is no if, it will happen. Thus, we need to move to another planet, or preferably another star system, before that happens.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Lonestar
Until the Chinese, Muslims, or Japanese found and killed them.

The Muslims tried once already. So did the Mongols.

And yet they weren't killed. The Black Death did a far "better" job than the invaders.