NSA building massive database of US domestic phone records

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

So your saying Bellsouth full well knowing At&t has a class action suit against it would make their own situation worse by putting out a deliberately false press release. I highly doubt it.

[Pekka]

Siro, that was not the point. The data is stored, and you pointed out the problem I pointed out; it is fragmented and therefore the quality of any conclusion is of less value. Plus it's really just static, making it even more questionable.

So if it's not used to track down and get more suspects, what is it used for? Just to have new systems and look at them? .. There will be mostly just innocent people targeted due to this system. This is not anything new, these kind of things are doomed to be mishandled and used in the hands if incompetent people. Or what about the fly lists? Mostly innocent people are targeted. You will see a rise of suspects very soon, it's like a demand now. We have this system, so we need to use it, and we get all these results. That's exactly what's going to happen and it's trivial.

I have examined these things and issues and most arguments here are totally something that are not reality. LIke the intentions of it. That doesn't mean anything when we compare to the reality of it. The data is gathered, it's most often weak, fragmented, out of date, static etc. Even worse is any kind of neural things, trying to predict future behaviour.

And you bet yout buttocks it will be used mostly by incompetent people. Because there are not a lot of competent people to use thjose kind of things, myself included.

There are number of other risks besides lack of competency. I've laid them out here already. They are not 'worst case scenarios', they are scenarios that happen every day, but it's mostly by businesses doing research on their products and customers. So the implications of this is far worse, because they are not trying to enhance a product or sell you stuff.

The worst thing you can do is trust the system and the people using it.

But it will make an attractive system to abuse and break into. I'm sure I'll hear another 'ah but it's so secure, why would you not trust it', and if you were thinking this, you should not even own a computer but go have sex with donkeys right now.

But considering this is the major consesus, you will totally deserve every bad thing from this and dont' say I didn't warn you.

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
So your saying Bellsouth full well knowing At&t has a class action suit against it would make their own situation worse by putting out a deliberately false press release. I highly doubt it.

I'm not sure if this is addressed to me but ..

If they have been given an NSL:

1) they may not reveal that fact, to do so would be a criminal act.

2) any law suits filed against them will fall apart once they are allowed to reveal that they were merely following the law

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Which means Bellsouth would be required to say nothing on the matter rather than lie. They would be advised by their own council to take the route At&t did and simply say they comply with lawful governemental requests.

[Sirotnikov]

Siro, that was not the point. The data is stored, and you pointed out the problem I pointed out; it is fragmented and therefore the quality of any conclusion is of less value. Plus it's really just static, making it even more questionable.

Huh?
There's no reason why any conclusion from it will have "less value". This data is not there to replace regular investigation. Just to aid it.

And it is not just static. That is a silly assumption.

So if it's not used to track down and get more suspects, what is it used for? Just to have new systems and look at them? .. There will be mostly just innocent people targeted due to this system.

What do you mean by targetted?

I see targetting as the last stage, where people are put under direct survailance and are definite suspects.

On the contrary- this method adds a way of screening to find suspects for previously unknown groups.
It adds a way which is much better than regular profiling, because it takes into account people's actual behaviour, instead of their religion or ethnicity.

[SpencerH]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
Which means Bellsouth would be required to say nothing on the matter rather than lie. They would be advised by their own council to take the route At&t did and simply say they comply with lawful governemental requests.

Well, I didnt say or suggest that denying that they had given the phone records to the NSA was the most intelligent thing to do. I was merely pointing out that there may be more here than meets the eye. A "no comment" answer to a direct question on this matter is tantamont to an admission that they indeed passed on the info. IMO, NSL are an insidious aspect of the patriot act (and no one is likely to call me a liberal on defense matters).

[Vince278]

Can the NSA please tell me who that f*#&ing telemarketer is?