Pope To Consider Allowing People To Live

[Robert]

Yeah, those are nice reasons etc.
But they're made up by the church. They're not biblical.

Why is mariage only to reproduce?
The reason that God putted man and woman together in paradise was because "It's not good that man is alone". God created man and woman to help each other, to be together.

The mariage between man and woman is used in the Bible to explain the connection God and mankind. The church is the bride and God is the groom. Do we have to reproduce with God for that same reason? Don't be silly.

Mankind can multiply and use birth control at the same time. I've used birth control for a couple of years. Now my wife is pregnant and we're about to multiply.
Not to mention the fact that, like I said, we did a fairly good job, multiplying.

It's made-up rules and stuff like this that gives people reasons to say that christianity is all man made up. The core of christianity, that God took the punishment that we deserved ourselves, is being blinded by all this kind of crap.

Wow, did I just change in this thread from being the defender of the RCC into the attacker of the RCC

[Colonâ„¢]

Originally posted by Dauphin
Back in those days they were effectively sheep, not condoms. (Being as they often were, made from sheeps guts).

Well, what was the stance of the Church wit regard to those condoms then?

[Lorizael]

What part of the Bible includes the Pope and his infallibility?

[Robert]

II Pope 3:15

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by Colonâ„¢


Well, what was the stance of the Church wit regard to those condoms then?

Been against them for most of the time in the main. In the medieval days contraception was frowned upon at least, and in other cases edicted against.

One of the popes declared marriages where the partners did not intend to have children were null and void. This because a) the marriage should be consumated but if you didn't intend to have children you shouldn't intend to have intercourse, and b) if it was to be consumated then obviously contraceptive techniques were intended to be used, which was a sin.

[Flip McWho]

Cybershy, I agree wholeheartedly.

The RCC can be a bit retarded in some of their teachings.

But then so can all religions, so its really a matter of splitting hairs as to which is the best one.

[Terra Nullius]

Originally posted by CyberShy
Yeah, those are nice reasons etc.
But they're made up by the church. They're not biblical.

Umm,.. you mean biblical,. as in coming from the bible,.. which was made up by the Church? Or am I missing something?

Why is mariage only to reproduce?

From the previous page...
husband and wife, through that mutual gift of themselves, which is specific and exclusive to them alone, develop that union of two persons in which they perfect one another, cooperating with God in the generation and rearing of new lives.

...The reason is that the fundamental nature of the marriage act, while uniting husband and wife in the closest intimacy, also renders them capable of generating new life

Did you actually read that before posting Cyber?
I don't see where you get the idea that marriage is only to reproduce. Or have you just been watching too much Monty Python lately?

It's made-up rules and stuff like this that gives people reasons to say that christianity is all man made up.

Why should people need special reasons to say that? It's perfectly sensible to say that Christianity is all made-up.

To say that Christianity is inspired by God is quite unreasonable.

Concern of the Church

18. It is to be anticipated that perhaps not everyone will easily accept this particular teaching. There is too much clamorous outcry against the voice of the Church, and this is intensified by modern means of communication. But it comes as no surprise to the Church that she, no less than her divine Founder, is destined to be a "sign of contradiction." (22) She does not, because of this, evade the duty imposed on her of proclaiming humbly but firmly the entire moral law, both natural and evangelical.

Since the Church did not make either of these laws, she cannot be their arbiter—only their guardian and interpreter. It could never be right for her to declare lawful what is in fact unlawful, since that, by its very nature, is always opposed to the true good of man.

[Terra Nullius]

Wow, did I just change in this thread from being the defender of the RCC into the attacker of the RCC

Attack away! I'm certainly not offended by it.

Some people's only intention is to poke fun at the Church. Which is understandable - it presents a pretty easy target. Again, I'm really not offended by it. But I've heard it all a thousand times already.

I'd much prefer an informed debate, criticising actual Church teachings. If I wanted to hear the same old Monty Python repertory, I'd rent the video.

[Terra Nullius]

Originally posted by Colonâ„¢
Well, what was the stance of the Church wit regard to those condoms then?

Sheep on the right hand, goats on the left hand.

Matthew 25.28-38

[Terra Nullius]

Originally posted by Lorizael
What part of the Bible includes the Pope and his infallibility?

http://www.catholic-forum.com/SAINTS/ncd04968.htm

This office was communicated to the Church formally by Christ, when He said: "Going, therefore teach ye all nations" (Matthew 28).
The Church exercises this teaching power infallibly in matters of faith and morals, in virtue of the promise of Divine assistance given her by Christ, "And behold I am with you all days even to the consummation of the world" (Matthew 28).
This command to teach and this promise of special assistance were given to the Apostles only. Therefore the actual holders of the teaching office in the Church are the pope and the bishops, as the successors of Saint Peter and the other Apostles.
...
When all the bishops in the world agree in their teaching ... this constitutes an infallible teaching of the Ecclesia Docens, because the Church as a whole cannot fall into error in these matters.
...
The pope enjoys the prerogative of infallibility in his official capacity as successor of Saint Peter, and hence Supreme Pastor of the Church. When the pope solemnly defines a truth to be de fide for the whole Church this is called a solemn exercise of the magisterium. The pope may exercise this solemn prerogative either in conjunction with an aecumenical council, or on his own authority.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15006b.htm

IV. The organization and exercise of the living magisterium; its precise rôle in the defence and transmission of revealed truth--its limits and modes of action.

Doctrinal infallibility has been guaranteed to the episcopal body and to the head of that body as it was guaranteed to the Apostles, ... however ... only the body of bishops is infallible and each bishop is not so, save in proportion as he teaches in communion and concert with the entire episcopal body.

At the head of this episcopal body is the supreme authority of the Roman pontiff, the successor of St. Peter in his primacy as he is his successor in his see. As supreme authority in the teaching body, which is infallible, he himself is infallible. The episcopal body is infallible also, but only in union with its head... The authority of the pope may be exercised without the co-operation of the bishops, and this even in infallible decisions which both bishops and faithful are bound to receive with the same submission.

[Alexander's Horse]

WHO LISTENS TO THE VATICAN ANYWAY???

[Terra Nullius]

That's what I'd like to know

[Robert]

The Bible made up by the church?
The Bible existed before the church existed. The church is an institution of christians who became christians because of the message in the Bible.

Therefor the Bible made the Church, and not the Church the Bible. Therefor the Church can only teach what's in the Bible, and they cannot make new things up.

About all that's in the Bible to be made up by men?
I'm not so sure about that. The center of christianity is very un-human. It's not something that people would make up if they make up their own faith.

Terra: I don't make fun about the RCC.
I'm a christian myself. I'm only worried about the large number of silly rules that are made by the RCC.
And indeed: every church is fallable, also is my own church.

[Terra Nullius]

Originally posted by CyberShy
The Bible existed before the church existed.

Therefor the Church made the Bible, and not the Bible the church.

I'm not sure what you're saying here. It looks like you just contradicted yourself?

It's not something that people would make up if they make up their own faith.

I'm not too sure but it seems like you're trying to provide a rational explanation for Christianity here. I don't think Christianity can or should be explained rationally.

Which is not to say that there is no use for the faculty of reason. But Christianity itself should be accepted or rejected on the basis of faith, not reason.

I'm only worried about the large number of silly rules that are made by the RCC.

I don't think they are generally 'silly' rules. If they were, they could be easily dismissed. Mostly, they are very carefully reasoned, logical rules.

As I see it, the problem is two-fold.
1) The weight of rules overshadows the practice of compassionate love.
As I said before, this is also cause for division within the Church between 'left' and 'right' factions.

2) The careful logic of 'The Rules' does not readily take into account the difficulty of actually putting them into practice.
ie. While those rules may be carefully reasoned, they tend to define an absolute standard of perfect behaviour - and none of us is perfect. (Which is a problem in itself; not being perfect is not an adequate excuse for failing to strive for perfection).

Briefly, I don't think 'silly' typifies RCC teaching. But perfect logic and perfect behaviour is sometimes emphasised over simple human compassion.

And indeed: every church is fallable, also is my own church.

Depends on your point of view.

It's fine for you, as a non-Catholic, to see the RCC as fallible. It is not OK for a Catholic to hold the same opinion. To do so would be apostasy.

The doctrine of infallibilty is very rarely invoked. However, where it is invoked, a faithful Catholic has no option but to submit humbly to the Church's authority or stop being a Catholic.

[Flip McWho]

Cybershy,

The center of christianity is very un-human. It's not something that people would make up if they make up their own faith.

Yeah it is. What more could you want in a religion but a perfect divine being whose your champion? Hes the perfect hero of the story.

Terra,

2) The careful logic of 'The Rules'...

Yeah thats my main beef with the church. I agree that all the positions of the church are usually excellently reasoned, yet they do seem to fail in that they are always 'perfect'. It is hard to be a practical wordly entity when most of what you deal with is perfectly divine so to speak.