Pope To Consider Allowing People To Live

[DaShi]

I'd like to point out that the Church has never had a problem with condoms preventing the spread of STDs. The problem is that they are a means of birth control. Condoms are being considered allowable only because they prevent STDs from spreading.

So CyberShy, you are still sinning by taking birth control pills.

[Robert]

DaShi: if you can tell me why I'm sinning, I'll stop never do it again.
In fact I'm still waiting for the RCC to explain to me why people aren't allowed to use birth control.
Same for no-mariage for priests etc.

But that's one of the reasons that I'm not a Roman Catholic, they made too much up

[Flip McWho]

Well you're sinning cause your killing potential babies. 'Tis why you can't masturbate either. Each one of those potential sperms that are wasted when contraception is used is you committing murder. That's right, you are sinning cause your reducing the chances of bringing a wonderful life into this world to zero (in intent at least). This is murder, and is therefore a sin.

If you switch masturbation for contraception its the same deal.

[Flip McWho]

Priests can't get married cause they can't afford to give the love and attention that a women deserves to them because they instead have to devote their lives to the loving of God and the teaching of his son's wonderful message. This doesn't afford them the time to have significant others. God's a fulltime deity.

[DaShi]

Be fruitflies and multiply!

[Lorizael]

Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is great.
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.

[Robert]

Flip McWho, in case you're serious, you have any biblical arguments?
I have no problems with masturbation either.
And the number of sperm cells that die during unprotected intercourse is still something like 100% except when one of the little fellows reaches it's goal, in that case it's 99,9999999999%

And about the be fruitfull and multiply thing, did we multiply or not? I'd say: mission accomplished

[Dauphin]

What Flip says about priest is correct, its a denial, a sacrifice and not as some people believe 'a sin' for priests to have relations. I've heard that from a number of priests over the years, and no mention of bible references. Married men who become priests are allowed to remain married to their wives and have normal married relations IIRC.


The other point, essentially true but the spin is a bit different depending on who you ask. There are bible references somewhere, but Catholicism isn't as literalist as protestantism is.

[Vesayen]

Originally posted by Colon™
I don't see what this has to do with medieval thinking. They didn't have AIDS back then and nor did they have condoms.

Condoms are thousands of years old(really).

[Dauphin]

Back in those days they were effectively sheep, not condoms. (Being as they often were, made from sheeps guts).

[Lorizael]

That's a pleasant image.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Flip McWho
Well you're sinning cause your killing potential babies. 'Tis why you can't masturbate either. Each one of those potential sperms that are wasted when contraception is used is you committing murder. That's right, you are sinning cause your reducing the chances of bringing a wonderful life into this world to zero (in intent at least). This is murder, and is therefore a sin.

If you switch masturbation for contraception its the same deal.

If you don't use them sperm die anyway. They have a very short life span. The same could be said of woman's ova. It should be pointed out that when a woman masturbates nothing happens to her ova, 'cause ovulation is internally triggered as part of the cycle. By your reasoning it should be OK for women to masturbate.

I don't think you've quite captured the reasoning behind the official position of the Roman Catholic Church on masturbation.

[Terra Nullius]

Originally posted by CyberShy
I'm still waiting for the RCC to explain to me why people aren't allowed to use birth control.

Papal Encyclical: Humanae Vitae

NB: The following quote should be taken in context. This extract does not, in isolation, constitute the Church's teaching.

Union and Procreation

12. This particular doctrine, often expounded by the magisterium of the Church, is based on the inseparable connection, established by God, which man on his own initiative may not break, between the unitive significance and the procreative significance which are both inherent to the marriage act.

The reason is that the fundamental nature of the marriage act, while uniting husband and wife in the closest intimacy, also renders them capable of generating new life—and this as a result of laws written into the actual nature of man and of woman. And if each of these essential qualities, the unitive and the procreative, is preserved, the use of marriage fully retains its sense of true mutual love and its ordination to the supreme responsibility of parenthood to which man is called.

God's Loving Design

8. Married love particularly reveals its true nature and nobility when we realize that it takes its origin from God, who "is love," (6) the Father "from whom every family in heaven and on earth is named." (7)

Marriage, then, is far from being the effect of chance or the result of the blind evolution of natural forces. It is in reality the wise and provident institution of God the Creator, whose purpose was to effect in man His loving design. As a consequence, husband and wife, through that mutual gift of themselves, which is specific and exclusive to them alone, develop that union of two persons in which they perfect one another, cooperating with God in the generation and rearing of new lives.

The marriage of those who have been baptized is, in addition, invested with the dignity of a sacramental sign of grace, for it represents the union of Christ and His Church.

[Flip McWho]

I wasn't being serious though those are the arguments as I understand them, with a generous bit of my bias against thrown in.

I can't defend the positions though.

Also the condom thing is connected to marriage. You're only supposed to have sex once you're married so why the heck would you wanna not have children in a marriage? Isn't that point of getting married?

Again according to the RCC, can't defend that either.

[DaShi]

Originally posted by Dauphin
Back in those days they were effectively sheep, not condoms. (Being as they often were, made from sheeps guts).

Ah, the old sheepskins.