Iraqi insurgents operating in large groups...

[MrFun]

Nah, I doubt he's a bigotted homophobe (seen him stand up for gays before here in OT); but he probably was unwittingly being hypocritical with his taunting.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by MOBIUS
Yaaay, maybe we should rename this thread "Idiot Apolytoners operating in large groups..."?

This thread rocks

[Agathon]

Originally posted by MrFun

What's funny is that in this thread, you claim to have respect for gays, yet you turn around and try to taunt Patroklos for having an Apolyton username that is tied to a historical figure who may have been gay.

Given that he's the big military man, and the current policy of the US military don't you see the mild irony?

Read the homophobia thread for an explanation if you absolutely must.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Agathon


Given that he's the big military man, and the current policy of the US military don't you see the mild irony?

Read the homophobia thread for an explanation if you absolutely must.

I don't argue against your claim that a substantial number of men in the military MAY be homophobic to SOME degree.

But, just as I don't want straight people to prejudge me because I'm gay based on negative stereotypes that are perpetuated by some other gays, I try to extend the same respect to those in the military; I won't prejudge everyone in the military because many of their comrades may have some degree of homophobic tendencies.

And of course, there is also the fact of gays in the military who adhere to the unfair "don't ask, don't tell" policy. Some of them may be closeted and in denial, and thus homophobic themselves, but the others are not ashamed of being gay while serving in the military.

You fell into the hole of prejudice against those who serve in the military; quick, climb out of the hole before you dig any deeper.

[Barinthus]

Originally posted by Agathon


They achieved their objective: they made the American public believe that the war was unwinnable.

Hence, they won.

That wasn't their objective. Zkribber said it - the goal was to achieve a nationwide rising which didn't happen.

The public relation victory was just an unexpected bonus and if Walter Cronike kept his mouth shut, things may have been different.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Agathon




I don't know what they do to you guys in the miltary, but being molested as a child would seem to be preferable.

No it isn't.

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Ted Striker
LOL @ you guys trying to rationalize the loss to the Vietcong like a crack addict afraid to admit he has a problem

Ted joins the "I don't know anything about the history of the Vietnam war" society. Way to jump on a loser!

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Oerdin

By 1971-1972 the Viet cong where in decent shape if not fine shape. The fall of Vietnam wasn't until 1975 so there is a lot of room for grandstanding and it is not only stupid but it is falacious to claim the North Vietnamese weren't a factor post 1969 Tet Offensive.

O.K., now Oerdin jumps on the bandwagon. Let's get some terminology clear first off. The Viet Cong were indigenous guerilla forces formed from cadres of the old Vietminh in South Vietnam after the partition. The North Vietnamese forces in the conflict were called NVA (North Vietnamese Army). They were typically regular forces who infiltrated into the south to fight the ARVN and the U.S. forces.

In 1968 the communists were afraid that they were going to lose the war and decided to try a gamble by launching an offensive during the Tet cease fire. They did this by mobilizing almost the entirety of the Viet Cong into regular units and using them to attack numerous targets all over South Vietnam. The initial results were devastating, but in very short order these units were engaged by the regular forces of the ARVN and U.S. militaries. They were largely destroyed in the ensuing combat or at least revealed and rolled up in the next year (the Phoenix program et al). Entire zones of the country which had been troublesome for years suddenly went quiet as the VC who had been launching the hit and run attacks were no longer operational.

By 1969 the VC were only a shadow of their former selves. Units of the NVA had to break down into guerilla units in some instances in order to reestablish any presence in large swaths of South Vietnam which had formerly been the AO of the VC. This gave the U.S. and ARVN some breathing room which they used to undertake the Vietnamization program and to take the offensive against the Ho Chi Minh trail and other infiltration routes from the North into the South. The culmination of these events was the U.S. "invasion" of the NVA controlled eastern part of Cambodia and the less successful ARVN operation into Laos.

Ultimately the Tet offensive is considered the turning point in the war for the U.S. politically, but the clearest loser was certainly the Viet Cong who were largely destroyed by this and subsequent operations and who ended up with almost no political power once the NVA took over (7 years later) in the south. The NVA was the biggest beneficiary of the Tet offensive, as it served their purposes both in the war and in the post war period, because there was no troublesome force in place in South Vietnam to counter their influence.