Windfall Profit Tax on Big Oil

[notyoueither]

The long and short of it is...

We don't need it all.

The oil sands (expensive oil) turn a profit at $40. Everything after that is gravey for the PoAlberta and the oil companies.

Meanwhile, transportation costs skyrocket so the price of goods or doing business in places like Ontario and California go way up.

Simply staying alive (warm) in the NE and most of Canada becomes more expensive.

There is nothing wrong with the concept of the government saying, hey, $60's enough. Give us a cut after that.

That way they'll have the cash to do something to help people who are going to be hammered by oil as it is, let alone if it keeps going.

[Imran Siddiqui]

You think many people driving 4x4's down the Whitemud are worrying about their next heating bill?

You've never been to the Southern US, have you? Most 'lower class' people are trying gas guzzling pickup trucks and older SUVs down here. And amazingly, demand rises... could part of it be that the SUV market totally boomed in the US (and carried the American auto makers through the late 90s)? Yeah, so big surprise the price is up now, especially with taking over Iraq, and disrupting supply, and now saber rattling with Iran. Not to mention Katrina. Less supply + fears of even less supply in the future (the Iran situation) + greater demand... yeah, higher prices.

[Imran Siddiqui]

There is nothing wrong with the concept of the government saying, hey, $60's enough. Give us a cut after that.

That way they'll have the cash to do something to help people who are going to be hammered by oil as it is, let alone if it keeps going.

They already tax gas. Why not USE that money for such subsidies in the first place instead of the general ledger, which, guess what, this "Windfall profit tax" is going?

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

You think many people driving 4x4's down the Whitemud are worrying about their next heating bill?

You've never been to the Southern US, have you? Most 'lower class' people are trying gas guzzling pickup trucks and older SUVs down here. And amazingly, demand rises... could part of it be that the SUV market totally boomed in the US (and carried the American auto makers through the late 90s)? Yeah, so big surprise the price is up now, especially with taking over Iraq, and disrupting supply, and now saber rattling with Iran. Not to mention Katrina. Less supply + fears of even less supply in the future (the Iran situation) + greater demand... yeah, higher prices.

Most of the half tons sold in Canada get sold in Alberta.

I know all about the gas guzzler love fest.

I also know that if you hit people with a big enough gas price stick, they begin to change. The value of second hand trucks has plummeted around here as people are wanting to trade them in.

We do have higher gas taxes. perhaps we need a bit higher still, and you need a whole lot higher.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by notyoueither


I live here, and I KNOW the price of oil.

Ready to set that **** aside yet?

I never doubted you knew. YOU were the one who was all uppity as if I wouldn't know where the price of oil happened to be

Originally posted by notyoueither


I live here, and I KNOW the price of oil.

Ready to set that **** aside yet?



Because oil is a sine qua non of modern society, and governments might want to rake off some of the cream in order to stabalise things like transportation so that people can eat affordably?

Hmm well in Alberta , wages have jumped and everyone can get a job plus we are importing workers from all across canada-- PLus ROYALTIES PLUS TAXES-- I know you know this since the "cream" has hit multibillion surpluses.

IF the government wanted to stabilize things like gas costs, take a look at the pump and see how much goes to them in tax-- Solutions to lessen gasoline prices are pretty obvious

Originally posted by notyoueither

What about the rest of society outside of the oil industry / producing regions?

To hell with them?

Nope-- federal taxes are being paid and the spin-off is country wide-- I know that you know about the Atlantic Canadians making the trek to the oilsands for their rotations on a regular basis

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

There is nothing wrong with the concept of the government saying, hey, $60's enough. Give us a cut after that.

That way they'll have the cash to do something to help people who are going to be hammered by oil as it is, let alone if it keeps going.

They already tax gas. Why not USE that money for such subsidies in the first place instead of the general ledger, which, guess what, this "Windfall profit tax" is going?

We don't tax gas enough, and you Yanks tax it even less.

But you are correct that part of the problem would be a shift in expectations from government.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Flubber


I never doubted you knew. YOU were the one who was all uppity as if I wouldn't know where the price of oil happened to be

You couldn't see why oil would be singled out.

I quoted current price and possible price of oil, which are both way beyond what the industry needs.

Try again.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I quoted current price and possible price of oil, which are way beyond what the industry needs.

Excuse me? We are now in the business of finding out how much each industry NEEDS in revenue? What, are we finally admiting we don't care about capitalism anymore? Viva la Revolution, eh?

I'm sure Gates doesn't NEED all those profits, should we put a windfall tax on Microsoft?

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Flubber
Hmm well in Alberta , wages have jumped and everyone can get a job plus we are importing workers from all across canada-- PLus ROYALTIES PLUS TAXES-- I know you know this since the "cream" has hit multibillion surpluses.

IF the government wanted to stabilize things like gas costs, take a look at the pump and see how much goes to them in tax-- Solutions to lessen gasoline prices are pretty obvious

Wrong direction.

Gas taxes should be doubled, at least.

Transportation industries can get the money back thorugh tax breaks or rebates.

There is zero reason for a soccer mom to be driving a Dodge Ram to the grocery store.

We aren't going to learn fuel economy until we have a Euro like lesson spanked into us.

And the government can use the funds for healthcare in places like S Ontario with large impacts in things like lung disease, or in Nfld for things like transportation.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

I quoted current price and possible price of oil, which are way beyond what the industry needs.

Excuse me? We are now in the business of finding out how much each industry NEEDS in revenue? What, are we finally admiting we don't care about capitalism anymore? Viva la Revolution, eh?

I'm sure Gates doesn't NEED all those profits, should we put a windfall tax on Microsoft?

Yes re oil. It's funny the perspective that massive gains for nothing gives you.

I'm sitting in cash. I'm swimming in it. And the oil sands have barely begun to pay royalties.

It's an embarassment of riches.

If you think of anyone but yourself, you begin to think about how it could be better.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by notyoueither




You couldn't see why oil would be singled out.

I quoted current price and possible price of oil, which are both way beyond what the industry needs.

Try again.

So its singled out because demand is too high and prices went too high in someones opinion.

Ok but on a % bases prices for rigs and tubes and fluids and competion services and injection services etc etc etc have increased MORE than a barrell of oil. I assume that you would want to tax all these folks special as well .


I see the importance of oil-- I get that it matters and if Canada were ever "running out", I could support anti-export measures in the name of national economic security.


But all you are talking is a cash grab-- changing the rules halfway through the game. Saying . . . yes we know you invested 10 billion but since it turned out well, we will take more . . . never mind if it went in the crapper it would have been on you

[Imran Siddiqui]

But all you are talking is a cash grab-- changing the rules halfway through the game. Saying . . . yes we know you invested 10 billion but since it turned out well, we will take more . . . never mind if it went in the crapper it would have been on you

Indeed... welcome to the world of irresponsible, unaccountable big government.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Flubber



So its singled out because demand is too high and prices went too high in someones opinion.

Ok but on a % bases prices for rigs and tubes and fluids and competion services and injection services etc etc etc have increased MORE than a barrell of oil. I assume that you would want to tax all these folks special as well .


I see the importance of oil-- I get that it matters and if Canada were ever "running out", I could support anti-export measures in the name of national economic security.


But all you are talking is a cash grab-- changing the rules halfway through the game. Saying . . . yes we know you invested 10 billion but since it turned out well, we will take more . . . never mind if it went in the crapper it would have been on you

The rules changed for the producers as well. The oil sands were developed with $40-50 in mind.

$70 is 'holy crap, are we lucky'.

$100 is neverland. You're the Elvi in the history of the oil industry.

In either case, the oil industry could afford to pay more to offset some of the costs of dealing with the price of oil.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by notyoueither


Yes re oil. It's funny the perspective that massive gains for nothing gives you.

I'm sitting in cash. I'm swimming in it. And the oil sands have barely begun to pay royalties.

It's an embarassment of riches.

If you think of anyone but yourself, you begin to think about how it could be better.

I am thinking about the general good as well. Add special taxes and they become a disincentive to investment. The companies today have more projects that are feasible than they have people and equipment to do them.

Ask premier Williams of Newfoundland how a hardball stance to take a bigger stake worked for him when it came to the Hebron project. Bottom line was his demands were more than similar projects elsewhere so other projects beat that project out for capital.. . . Now the long-term effect on oil will be unchanged since some other project with a similar production rate will get done.

But in an attempt to take more "cream", the flow of milk disappeared

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

But all you are talking is a cash grab-- changing the rules halfway through the game. Saying . . . yes we know you invested 10 billion but since it turned out well, we will take more . . . never mind if it went in the crapper it would have been on you

Indeed... welcome to the world of irresponsible, unaccountable big government.

As opposed to completely unaccountable big business.