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"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin Buber -
Im sure if you head down here early, you'll make it to the rally with few problems, KH.Originally posted by KrazyHorse
Is this going to **** up traffic on the beltway?"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin BuberComment
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I'd actually love to go, but my fiancee is flying in to Dulles on Sunday. Given that she sees me for about 3-4 days once a month I can guarantee she's not going to be too happy with that idea.12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
Stadtluft Macht Frei
Killing it is the new killing it
Ultima Ratio RegumComment
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Ming,Originally posted by Ming
And that's not personal how?????
Let's discuss the topic and NOT the posters.
there will be a rally in Chicago on Monday, May 1.
"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin BuberComment
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What I'd like to see is a more powerful UN, or a UN with teeth if you like. A UN that would go into places like Darfur with the power and the mandate to MAKE the killing stop, whether the parties cooperated or not. I believe the UN was always meant to be like that, and not the toothless paper tiger it has so many times turned out to be. Genocide and other atrocities against civilians should NOT be tolerated ANYWHERE EVER, and I believe if we were to draw a line in the sand and actually ENFORCE it EVERY time it was challenged, the world would be a better place because of it. Also, I believe that the need to use force would diminish over time, as people would KNOW the UN could not be ignored."Politics is to say you are going to do one thing while you're actually planning to do someting else - and then you do neither."
-- Saddam HusseinComment
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That has to be an automated response.Originally posted by Ming
And that's not personal how?????
Let's discuss the topic and NOT the posters.
"You're the biggest user of hindsight that I've ever known. Your favorite team, in any sport, is the one that just won. If you were a woman, you'd likely be a slut." - Slowwhand, to Imran
Eschewing silly games since December 4, 2005Comment
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Re: Save Darfur!
Too bad the rally isn't in my neighbourhood.DISCLAIMER: the author of the above written texts does not warrant or assume any legal liability or responsibility for any offence and insult; disrespect, arrogance and related forms of demeaning behaviour; discrimination based on race, gender, age, income class, body mass, living area, political voting-record, football fan-ship and musical preference; insensitivity towards material, emotional or spiritual distress; and attempted emotional or financial black-mailing, skirt-chasing or death-threats perceived by the reader of the said written texts.Comment
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And where will this magical, utterly independent and saintly UN army come from? Who will pay its salary? Who decides what it can and can't do? Syria? Zimbabwe? The US? The entire concept is a sad impossibility. Nations will always act for their own interests first, and not for the greater good. Such a f(arcical)orce would end up being a waste of money. Even if tryannical states were not part of the UN--and they could not be, given the involvement of many of their number in the atrocities we would like to prevent--then other countries, for the sake of keeping up good relations or trade, will prevent this army from taking action in many cases (though it would, I suppose, be an improvement). Still, the problem of Sudan's membership in the UN--and many countries like it--still stands.What I'd like to see is a more powerful UN, or a UN with teeth if you like. A UN that would go into places like Darfur with the power and the mandate to MAKE the killing stop, whether the parties cooperated or not.Last edited by Zevico; April 25, 2006, 07:45."You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."--General Sir Charles James NapierComment
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Not magical, not necessarily independent and certainly not saintly. Human would do. The guidelines for determining what the UN can and can not do are already laid down in the UN Charter.Originally posted by Zevico
And where will this magical, utterly independent and saintly UN army come from? Who will pay its salary? Who decides what it can and can't do? Syria? Zimbabwe? The US? The entire concept is a sad impossibility. Nations will always act for their own interests first, and not for the greater good. Such a f(arcical)orce would end up being a waste of money. Even if tryannical states were not part of the UN--and they could not be, given the involvement of many of their number in the atrocities we would like to prevent--then other countries, for the sake of keeping up good relations or trade, will prevent this army from taking action in many cases (though it would, I suppose, be an improvement). Still, the problem of Sudan's membership in the UN--and many countries like it--still stands.
Chapter 7 of the UN Charter specifically deals with "ACTION WITH RESPECT TO THREATS TO THE PEACE, BREACHES OF THE PEACE, AND ACTS OF AGGRESSION". Basically, what the Charter outlines is not an independent standing UN Army, but a system where individual UN members contribute by sending elements of their own armed forces to participate in UN operations.
Sudan being a UN Member is not necessarily a problem here - they can speak up for themselves and they can vote, but others can speak and vote against them. The main problem that has repeatedly paralyzed the UN over the years is that the 5 permanent members to the Security Council (the USA, UK, France, Russia and China) all have veto power, meaning that if any one of these votes against a resolution, then that resolution is dead.
On a more general basis, it is true as you say that nations tend to act for their own interests first and it's hard to get so many people to agree on a course of action when so many different interests are involved. But, if the peoples of the world really want to, I honestly believe that we can and will make it happen some day."Politics is to say you are going to do one thing while you're actually planning to do someting else - and then you do neither."
-- Saddam HusseinComment
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LOTM - good for you. My own personal spin is that, besides logistical support, the US could deploy a couple of units of Air Guard in F16's. Put them under African Union auspices, with probably a South African in command - I trust the South Africans more than the Nigerians, and those are your two power centers in sub-Sahara Africa - and create a no-fly zone like we did for the Kurds, or de facto in the Balkans.
A BBC reporter JUST reported, yesterday, and another village bombed by "Antonov Ground Attack aircraft" - actually military transports packed with bombs - and helicopter gunships. Then Sudanese government troops supported by their militias attacked the town. F16's would make dogmeat of that air support , and the PR benefits would be great.
Sadly a UN peacekeeping force could not be deployed. Once the atrocities got too raw, the US Oil Companies pulled out, and the Europeans came in. After the Europeans pulled out due to pressure from their own governments and citizens, Indian and Chinese interests came in to develop the oil wealth. Guess who has a UN Veto, and doesn't care about genocide.?
The PR benefits for the US would be great, IMHO. How can you put a negative spin on stopping genocide? Al Jaezira might try, but that is a lost cause anyway. I'd a hell of a lot prefered my sister's husband died stopping a bonafide genocide. Also Kudoes to Colin Powel for starting the genocide ball rolling (by declaring it such rather then let people split verbal hairs on what "it" was) before his resignation.The worst form of insubordination is being right - Keith D., marine veteran. A dictator will starve to the last civilian - self-quoted
And on the eigth day, God realized it was Monday, and created caffeine. And behold, it was very good. - self-quoted
Klaatu: I'm impatient with stupidity. My people have learned to live without it.
Mr. Harley: I'm afraid my people haven't. I'm very sorry… I wish it were otherwise.Comment
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Easy. Blather on a bit about ignoring the will of the UN yet again (the only way an international force would be sent in at this point). Run pictures of American servicemen being drug through the streets or other methods of execution a la Somalia. Boom! Instant loss of support and you're couragously volunteering your dead in-law for another intervention instead.Originally posted by Mr. Harley
The PR benefits for the US would be great, IMHO. How can you put a negative spin on stopping genocide?I make no bones about my moral support for [terrorist] organizations. - chegitz guevara
For those who aspire to live in a high cost, high tax, big government place, our nation and the world offers plenty of options. Vermont, Canada and Venezuela all offer you the opportunity to live in the socialist, big government paradise you long for. –Senator RubioComment
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Who cares about Darfur - certainly not the US and UK.
China only cares about it because of the oil they think is underneath it.Comment
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Originally posted by DinoDoc
Easy. Blather on a bit about ignoring the will of the UN yet again (the only way an international force would be sent in at this point). Run pictures of American servicemen being drug through the streets or other methods of execution a la Somalia. Boom! Instant loss of support and you're couragously volunteering your dead in-law for another intervention instead.
1. The UNSC has just passed personal sanctions on 4 individuals from Sudan implicated in genocide. Not much, I know, but maybe a sign that the Chinese do not see casting vetos as cost free. I hope to learn more on Sunday. Certainly the more attention we focus, the less likely it is the Chinese will veto.
2. If the UNSC wont act, that does not mean action is not necessary.
3. If we go in militarily (and its quite possible the threat of intervention alone will cause the Khartoum govt to give in) we should do as intelligently as possible, being wary of urban ground warfare. Are there major cities in Darfur? What would the impact of a no-fly zone be?"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin BuberComment
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Heres who cares:Originally posted by MOBIUS
Who cares about Darfur
"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin BuberComment
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Heres a list of other rallies to be held on Sunday across the US and Canada.
"A person cannot approach the divine by reaching beyond the human. To become human, is what this individual person, has been created for.” Martin BuberComment
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