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actually, we are less enslaved to the economic system than before. Women are not forced to marry to survive.
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Just a friendly note from the middle ground:
I'm not an atheist, I'm not a zealot. I'm a practicing Orthodox Christian. I drink on occasion but not excessively, I'm not going to kill my brain with drugs, I educate myself (currently taking a class on Nietzsche; amazingly, it hasn't turned me atheist!). I think Britney Spears is a terrible, terrible musician, but there is no psychological evidence that subliminal messages of any kind have any appreciable effect.
I realize that religions have done bad things in the past; this was generally accompanied by a variety of aggravating circumstances, such as a generally ignorant populace in poor health, plagues, foreign invasions, weak or inefficient government, economic collapse, and so on. The same conditions, in a non-religious people, can lead to similar abuses of secular ideologies, as was the case for most of the atrocities of the 20th century.
Occasionally there are genuinely bad apples in the bunch, such as personality cults (Scientology, anyone?) and just plain nutty beliefs such as the Aztecs' or modern pseudosciences. The presence of generalized "anti-religious fanatics" such as BlackCat actually shields such people, by directing animosity at religion as a whole and away from the real sources of trouble. Religious communities everywhere feel compelled to counter the assault collectively, and the stinkers get lost in the resulting fray.Comment
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Ehrr, what are you talking about ???? Beliving in some kind of god for certain isn't nessecary to have a wholesome life with cildren etc. Quite contrary - it would probalby ruin our life just as it would your spouses - the children, well as grown ups the parents will have a chance to get a life, but it would be hell for the children..Originally posted by Son of David
Well, wouldn't you rather live slightly less but as a free human being, living a wholesome life with family and children, following God's laws, than live for longer in squalid, overcrowded city conditions, with no vision, no purpose in life?
Excuse me for being a little rude, but you are pretty far out if you think that people was happy before industrialisation.Unfortunately the industrialization process has forced many people into taking the latter option, but human beings above all have spiritual needs, and when these needs cannot be fulfilled they will turn to destructive behaviours and other activities to dull their senses.
You get even worse when you claim that humans need a god. That is plain stupid. The only people that belives in this are those that already has a firm supernatural belief.
Yep, but at least they don't have to slave for som fantasy, just for themself, that actually is a great difference.Really, most people today are slaves to the economic system. Hopelessly enslaved.
Oh, if the current system was dropped to the benefit of a system like yous, then the slavery would probably be much greater - I actually can't recall any religious belief that wouldn't enslave people.With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
Steven WeinbergComment
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Originally posted by Dis
actually, we are less enslaved to the economic system than before. Women are not forced to marry to survive.
That has nothing to do with economics as such:
Genesis 2: 23-24
Men and women are literally made for each other!Comment
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Ho-hum. Looks like we're back to bible-quote territory. Pity, this had the potential to become a really funny strawman-duel between BC and SoD...Comment
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Just a minor correction - I don't mind that people have religious beliefs, that is their own business and I respect their right to have that.Originally posted by Elok
The presence of generalized "anti-religious fanatics" such as BlackCat
Though, as you have sensed, I consider religion as beliving in supersticiousness - it actually is quite funny that there are "legitimate" gods and gods based upon supersticioucness. How do you distinct the right god from the false ?With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
Steven WeinbergComment
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Yep, if they wasn't they couldn't have children. That isn't religion in any way, it's simple biology. Please drop those fantasy book cites, I actually doesn't give a damn.Originally posted by Son of David
That has nothing to do with economics as such:
Genesis 2: 23-24
Men and women are literally made for each other!With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
Steven WeinbergComment
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Originally posted by Elok
Ho-hum. Looks like we're back to bible-quote territory. Pity, this had the potential to become a really funny strawman-duel between BC and SoD...
God's word is beautiful and perfect.
Don't you think so?Comment
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Originally posted by BlackCat
Yep, if they wasn't they couldn't have children. That isn't religion in any way, it's simple biology. Please drop those fantasy book cites, I actually doesn't give a damn.
Freud called this 'penis envy'.
Why can't some women just accept that they aren't men?
One of the 10 Commandments speaks thus, 'Thou shalt not covet.'
That also applies to women who want to be men and have men's power.
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How do you know that it is so ? Give me one good reason that god should be like such.Originally posted by Son of David
God's word is beautiful and perfect.
Don't you think so?With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
Steven WeinbergComment
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Originally posted by BlackCat
How do you know that it is so ? Give me one good reason that god should be like such.
Could you describe your vision of the universe without believing in the existence of God?
What is man's purpose on this planet? Simply to have fun, do his own thing?
If that is true, then what do you have to say about the thousands of generations of your forefathers who fought tooth and nail to give you the material riches and opportunities you see around you?
Surely it is your responsibility to ensure that people who are born after you are able to enjoy the fruits of your ancestors' good works too.
The problem with Europe is that it is selfish and pursuing short-term profit at the expense of long-term stability.
In the end, you can all choose to eschew God if you please - but He will likewise eschew you, and smite all of you off the face of this earth, and replace you with people who will be loyal to Him.
It's up to you. You can choose death, or life. God is life.Comment
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A little comment to previous - if god is perfect, then how come that he made such a mess whenhe created this universe ?
No, the answer that humans was given free will isn't an acceptable answer. If that was the fact, then any human action would be acceptable including denying existence of god.
Catchy
free will, but if no belief then burn inhell etc.
What about no belief, no hell, no heaven, just existence ? Scary, but probably true - probably even if there actually is a god.With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
Steven WeinbergComment
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Intensive introspection helps, as does theological study, talking things over with a priest...it varies. Ultimately, I'm not inclined to believe that what some people call "faith," ie memorizing the twelve titles of Jesus's first cousin and the virtues they are held to represent, matters anywhere near as much as sincerity and devotion to self-improvement. True faith is not the memorization of the trappings of a mythology. It works on a very different level.Originally posted by BlackCat
Just a minor correction - I don't mind that people have religious beliefs, that is their own business and I respect their right to have that.
Though, as you have sensed, I consider religion as beliving in supersticiousness - it actually is quite funny that there are "legitimate" gods and gods based upon supersticioucness. How do you distinct the right god from the false ?
But I'd rather not start the same old argument. I'm just saying that you have a tendency to automatically write up anyone religious as a stereotypical clay-painted tribal savage doing a rain dance and then stoning a man for having the Evil Eye. As a result, you fall into the same pharisaical attitude found in, uh, people like the one currently under discussion: at least I'm not one of THEM. You appear to be living in a dualistic mythology, Forces of Reason in eternal conflict with Primitives, ignoring any evidence that may contradict that theory (as when Stalin was reclassified as a "religious leader" because he fostered negative activities you normally associate with religious belief, despite being an atheist.).
The only thing you accomplish by it is to start multiple outraged discussions that go nowhere. Plus people who might otherwise be willing to talk things over become defensive on behalf of "religion" everywhere. Scientology is able to survive in part by painting itself as just another maligned faith, its enemies as anti-religious extremists. And people believe them, because in their experience hardcore atheists really don't distinguish between normal religions and sickos. They're all heirs to the Inquisition as far as you're concerned.Comment
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Pleas reduce the amount of funny mushroms - you doesnøt make sense.Originally posted by Son of David
Freud called this 'penis envy'.
Why can't some women just accept that they aren't men?
One of the 10 Commandments speaks thus, 'Thou shalt not covet.'
That also applies to women who want to be men and have men's power.
With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
Steven WeinbergComment
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or maybe they just don't want to be oppressed. They are funny that way.Originally posted by Son of David
Freud called this 'penis envy'.
Why can't some women just accept that they aren't men?
One of the 10 Commandments speaks thus, 'Thou shalt not covet.'
That also applies to women who want to be men and have men's power.
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