Brits Turn Toilets for Muslim Prisoners

[Ramo]

then why are you still arguing the point?

For some insane reason, you persist in asserting that the prison was acting unreasonably.

You realize that buildlings require architectural plans, right? And a change like that one will require a re-evaluation of those plans.....which (let me know if I'm going to fast now), ain't free?

I know this is a complicated subject, but the prison's being refurbished, independent of the toilets.

And we can pretty well guess that the rooms exist....otherwise, there wouldn't be anything to refurbish...it'd then be...you know...new construction. Those definitions of words are such pesky details, I know!

Main Entry: re·fur·bish
Pronunciation: ri-'f&r-bish
Function: transitive verb
: to brighten or freshen up

http://www.webster.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?sourceid=Mozilla-search&va=refurbishment

I'm not exactly sure how that precludes construction, but I'm not an expert on technical terms in this subject.

Oh, and for the record....your side brought up the possibility of violence (and toilet orientation as a means of making it less likely)....ergo, my commenting on YOUR argument does not a strawman make. Recommend you familiarize yourself with the definition before slinging the word, 'k?

Ahh, so you've changed your mind again, yes?

No. I know subtlety isn't your strong suit, but again:
"no one has said that this alone could trigger violence (what we have been saying is that it is a component to poor morale, which could lead to violence)."
Please actually read that.

You created caricatures of the prison population (and our characterization of them), which are clearly strawmen. Something can cause only mild resentment, and still contribute to violent behavior, particularly among a population accustomed to violence. It's not all or nothing. The point is that it's best not to needlessly antagonize the population, given that, if you're gonna believe the only folks who have any idea about what they're talking about, the change doesn't add significant costs.

[Dinner]

Screw them. In most Arab villages people still **** in a hole and wipe their asses with their hands so they should just be happy to have a flushing toilet since these people are nothing but criminals rotting in jail.

[Jon Miller]

When in Rome do as the Romans do....

JM

[Colonâ„¢]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Screw them. In most Arab villages people still **** in a hole and wipe their asses with their hands so they should just be happy to have a flushing toilet since these people are nothing but criminals rotting in jail.

Who says they're from Arab villages? All the article states is that they're Muslim inmates. They might just as well been born in London, with the same keen sense of comfort whiteys have.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Velo has sure become messed up in the head recently... or has it always been there, but I've never read his posts to notice?

Yup.

[Sandman]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
How has it come to the point that muslims comprise 1/4th of the prisoners in British jails? They're not anywhere near that proportion of the general poulation are they? Surely they're not all terrorists? I thought that muslims were supposed to be hard working, morally upright, abhor drug use and not at all subject to the sorts of proclivities that generally land people in jail.

It's one prison in Brixton, not the general prison population.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
How has it come to the point that muslims comprise 1/4th of the prisoners in British jails? They're not anywhere near that proportion of the general poulation are they? Surely they're not all terrorists? I thought that muslims were supposed to be hard working, morally upright, abhor drug use and not at all subject to the sorts of proclivities that generally land people in jail.

Yeah.. I think mormons (who are also suppose to be hardworking, morally upright, and abhor drug use) generally don't get into much trouble as long as they only marry one person.

Jon Miller

[Tattila the Hun]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
When in Rome do as the Romans do....

JM

But Rome wasn't refurbished in a day.

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by Ramo


Right, Cali, and obviously you're in a position to know what they're thinking. Muslims are mindless killing automatons that react negatively to compassion.

Muslim rulers have historically reacted , in general , negatively towards compassion . The ruling clerics still think that any compassion the kafirs show is weakness , or a trick . Even a cursory inspection of Islamic jurisprudence can tell you that .

[aneeshm]

Originally posted by monolith94


Denying muslims the ability to sit on a toilet like normal people is slightly cruel and most certainly unusual.

They are denying themselves the ability . Nobody has taken it away from them . If their beliefs seem slightly retarded in this particular regard , that is their problem - normal people should not bend over backwards to accomodate that retardation .

[Velociryx]

Okay Ramo, I'll play for as long as you would like to...LOL...I still think this is the dumbest debate ever, but it's fun to egg you on, if for no other reason than just to see what you'll say next, so...

For some insane reason, you persist in asserting that the prison was acting unreasonably.

I did? I said at the very start that the whole thing was idiotic, and I've already said that I don't really have a problem with it either way (but I still think it's idiotic). So obviously the reason you listed can't be for real. Got another? Oh, and....reading comprehension?

I know this is a complicated subject, but the prison's being refurbished, independent of the toilets.
Oh, okay, this is from the article YOU posted tho: The Home Office said two new toilet blocks are being installed as part of a refurbishment at Brixton jail in south London.

Ahhhh, so which is it then? Is your position that they had to modify the architechctural plans to make room for two new toilet blocks after the muslims complained, or that the toilet blocks were already planned as part of the refurbishment, and had to be altered for "proper toilet orientation." You realize that your answer does not really matter, and that the plans would have to be tweaked regardless, yes? I mean, surely you're not that dense. Or...are you?

No. I know subtlety isn't your strong suit, but again....strawmen
Hmm...that's interesting. Here are some quotes from the thread

You - I call it protecting society. And pointlessly pissing people off ain't protecting society.

Inference - This move will help offset their violence (by not pointlessly pissing them off. That being the case, then the opposite must hold true. We don't do this, they get pissed off, violence is a possiblity).

You again If you don't think that unhappiness of the prison population doesn't affect administrative costs in significant ways (as opposed to a few hours of the warden's time), you're deluding yourself.


Another indication that unhappy prisoners lead to increased violence, with the clear indication that this, being something that will make prisoners happy, will reduce violence. Again, if this is so, then we must conclude that its opposite position is also true.

I'm....not going too fast for you, am I?

From AnnC This is not about coddling prisoners or pandering to their "superstitions". It's about managing a (potentially) violent incarcerated population.

If you make allowances for prisoners' religious beliefs then it's easier to keep them under control. The decision to rotate the toilets is plain old good judgement.

A third example. Potentially violent incarcerated population. Toilet orientation = way to reduce their potential violence. No toilet orientation = possible INCREASE in their violence.

My exact words: If these people will (or run the risk of) getting violent over such trivialities, then clearly, they're in the right place, and they need to remain there....for a really long time.

Note the presence of the word "if" (a conditional...just like your side used). I'm not saying that they will erupt into violence (and I'm not saying you said that either). I'm simply using the flip side of the argument you already used. Again....reading comprehension?

Conclusion: Mentioning stuff you already mentioned =! Strawman.

Did you not get enough sleep last night, or maybe go out drinking? Cos that was....actually kinna weak.

-=Vel=-

[General Ludd]

Originally posted by aneeshm


Muslim rulers have historically reacted , in general , negatively towards compassion . The ruling clerics still think that any compassion the kafirs show is weakness , or a trick . Even a cursory inspection of Islamic jurisprudence can tell you that .

This can be said of all rulers in general.