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Wanted Canadian Man Kills Self On Boston Bus

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  • #16
    Originally posted by cronos_qc
    If sodomy is illegal, Man + Man is also... Illegal!
    Unless you only do oral or masturbate your partner....
    Sodomy is legal in every state.

    Lawrence v. Texas
    “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
    - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Agathon
      I went to Boston once.

      It made me feel like doing myself in.

      Although I did see one of John Kerry's daughters on the street. Very ****able.
      Coming from someone living in Toronto - quite possibly the world's ugliest city.

      Comment


      • #18
        Word.
        "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
        Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

        Comment


        • #19
          Proper.

          Comment


          • #20
            Toronto the Beautiful! (if you don't mind the smog)


            "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
            Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

            Comment


            • #21
              What's a Canadian doing coming to our country to kill our perverts?

              Many years ago didn't they send some guy down here to kill our abortion doctors?

              Is the secret behind Canada's low murder rate that they encourage their killers to come down here to commit their dirty deeds??
              "I say shoot'em all and let God sort it out in the end!

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by cronos_qc

                If sodomy is illegal, Man + Man is also... Illegal!
                Unless you only do oral or masturbate your partner....
                Imran's point is that it was illegal however recently the supreme court ruled that it was unconstitutional (violated the equal protection clause) and so all of the sodomy laws were tossed out.
                Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

                Comment


                • #23
                  @Oerdin
                  Yep I understand it... I writed this msg before reading Imraam msg.
                  But thank anyway!
                  bleh

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    the supreme court ruled that it was unconstitutional (violated the equal protection clause)


                    Nitpick. The Court said it violated the substantive due process right to liberty in the bedroom (so to speak) among consenting adults.
                    “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                    - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn


                      Coming from someone living in Toronto - quite possibly the world's ugliest city.
                      I thought that was Hull...
                      12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                      Stadtluft Macht Frei
                      Killing it is the new killing it
                      Ultima Ratio Regum

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
                        What's a Canadian doing coming to our country to kill our perverts?

                        Many years ago didn't they send some guy down here to kill our abortion doctors?
                        Other way around. James Kopp is an American who committed (or at least is thought to have committed) several killings of abortion doctors in Canada, as well as some in the US.
                        12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                        Stadtluft Macht Frei
                        Killing it is the new killing it
                        Ultima Ratio Regum

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
                          But the killings added to a growing unease with such Web sites. Jack King from the National Associaton of Criminal Defense Lawyers said making public sex offenders' addresses can be an invitation to violence.

                          Harassment, vandalism, assaults and even killings of sex offenders have been reported from coast to coast.

                          "There are going to be crazy people out there," King said from Washington, D.C. "And there's going to be vigilantism."


                          I have to agree. The individuals served their time. They shouldn't have to deal with vigilante justice, which the state knows is a forseeable consequence.
                          I have to disagree with Imran. Given the high rate of recidivism among sex offenders, keeping tabs on them after release and allowing parents to know if one is in their neighborhood are reasonable precautions.

                          It all boils down to weighing advantages versus disadvantages. The threat of vigilantism will always be present as long as anyone holds a grudge against any wrongdoer. Is there any way to quantify or qualify the harm to sex offenders due to vigilantism? Will a mere body count suffice? (If so, I think it's actually pretty low.) Is there any way to quantify or qualify the benefits to society of knowing where the offenders are?

                          It still seems to me the best way to avoid being killed by a vigilante with a hard on for sex offenders is don't be a sex offender.

                          If you're gonna rape a child, recognize you're going to be carrying that baggage around for life. Some "mistakes" aren't all that forgiveable or forgettable.

                          That said, I do think there is a lot of sloppiness in sex offender designations. Some "crimes" certainly don't warrant an eternal stain on the offender (like consensual sex between a 14 year old girl and an 18 year old boy), but I think most people would feel some criminals deserve to be marked and monitored post-incarceration. The system may need tweaking, but that doesn't mean it's altogether broken.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            These laws are a good example of why it's a bad idea for a society to rely on the initiative, though they were written by real (crappy) american lawmakers. They were whipped together in a frenzy after a high profile murder by a former sex offender on parole (iirc) and there is no evidence whatsoever that they've prevented a single sex assault while it's pretty clear that they've raised the anxiety level and the murder rate. A better idea would be for local residents to be notified by mail or even by a visit from a police officer whenever a convicted offender moves into a neighborhood. These laws also typically don't distinguish between high recidivism and low recidivism criminals or even between people who are likely to victimize others vs people who were just unlucky with the law.
                            He's got the Midas touch.
                            But he touched it too much!
                            Hey Goldmember, Hey Goldmember!

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              [q=ajbera]I have to disagree with Imran. Given the high rate of recidivism among sex offenders, keeping tabs on them after release and allowing parents to know if one is in their neighborhood are reasonable precautions.[/q]

                              I have seen no evidence that recidivism among sex offenders is greater than recidivism among other criminals. It's a myth that gets thrown out there because the repeat offenders get a lot of press (to stoke the mass hysteria).

                              It still seems to me the best way to avoid being killed by a vigilante with a hard on for sex offenders is don't be a sex offender.


                              That's a pretty silly statement:

                              It still seems to me the best way to avoid being killed by a vigilante with a hard on for corporate crimanals is don't be a corporate criminal.

                              It still seems to me the best way to avoid being killed by a vigilante with a hard on for Democrats is don't be a Democrat.

                              It still seems to me the best way to avoid being killed by a vigilante with a hard on for abortion doctors is don't be an abortion doctor.

                              It's a very "If you have nothing to hide, you'll let me search whatever I want" type of statement.

                              --

                              No one should have to worry about being killed by vigilantes in a society where we are supposed to be subject to the rule of law. After all, people do make mistakes and can be reformed. In essense things like this seems that the state is saying, well, we can't reform you and if you get killed because our listing, well that's tough. The state should protect its citizens better, perhaps do as Sikander said and be a bit more discrete about things.
                              “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                              - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
                                I have seen no evidence that recidivism among sex offenders is greater than recidivism among other criminals. It's a myth that gets thrown out there because the repeat offenders get a lot of press (to stoke the mass hysteria).


                                Recidivism of Sex Offenders Released from Prison in 1994

                                Presents, for the first time, data on the rearrest, reconviction, and reimprisonment of 9,691 male sex offenders, including 4,295 child molesters, who were tracked for 3 years after their release from prisons in 15 States in 1994. The 9,691 are two-thirds of all the male sex offenders released from prisons in the United States in 1994. The study represents the largest followup ever conducted of convicted sex offenders following discharge from prison and provides the most comprehensive assessment of their behavior after release.

                                Highlights include the following:

                                Within 3 years following their release, 5.3% of sex offenders (men who had committed rape or sexual assault) were rearrested for another sex crime.

                                On average the 9,691 sex offenders served 3 1/2 years of their 8-year sentence.

                                Compared to non-sex offenders released from State prisons, released sex offenders were 4 times more likely to be rearrested for a sex crime.

                                The 9,691 released sex offenders included 4,295 men who were in prison for child molesting.
                                csom.org is your first and best source for all of the information you’re looking for. From general topics to more of what you would expect to find here, csom.org has it all. We hope you find what you are searching for!


                                (CSOM is the Center for Sex Offender Management, a DOJ project)

                                Recidivism of Sex Offenders
                                May 2001
                                (excerpts)

                                * * *

                                Furthermore, results from some studies indicate that there may be higher base rates among certain categories of sex offenders (Quinsey, Laumiere, Rice, and Harris, 1995; Quinsey, Rice, and Harris, 1995). For example, in their follow-up study of sex offenders released from a psychiatric facility, Quinsey, Rice, and Harris (1995) found that rapists had a considerably higher rate of rearrest/reconviction than did child molesters.

                                Conversely, Prentky, Lee, Knight, and Cerce (1997) found that over a 25-year period, child molesters had higher rates of reoffense than rapists. In this study, recidivism was operationalized as a failure rate and calculated as the proportion of individuals who were rearrested using survival analysis (which takes into account the amount of time each offender has been at risk in the community). Results show that over longer periods of time, child molesters have a higher failure rate—thus, a higher rate of rearrest—than rapists (52 percent versus 39 percent over 25 years).

                                * * *

                                One method of dealing with this problem is to examine recidivism studies of specific types of sex offenders. This approach is warranted, given the established base rate differences across types of sex offenders. (Recent research suggests that many offenders have histories of assaulting across genders and age groups, rather than against only one specific victim population. Researchers in a 1999 study (Ahlmeyer, English, and Simons) found that, through polygraph examinations, the number offenders who "crossed over" age groups of victims is extremely high. The study revealed that before polygraph examinations, 6 percent of a sample of incarcerated sex offenders had both child and adult victims, compared to 71 percent after polygraph exams. Thus, caution must be taken in placing sex offenders in exclusive categories.) Marshall and Barbaree (1990) found in their review of studies that the recidivism rate for specific types of offenders varied:

                                Incest offenders ranged between 4 and 10 percent.
                                Rapists ranged between 7 and 35 percent.
                                Child molesters with female victims ranged between 10 and 29 percent.
                                Child molesters with male victims ranged between 13 and 40 percent.
                                Exhibitionists ranged between 41 and 71 percent.

                                * * *

                                There has been considerable research on the recidivism of rapists across various institutional and community-based settings and with varying periods of follow-up. A follow-up study of sex offenders released from a maximum-security psychiatric institution in California found that 10 of the 57 rapists (19 percent) studied were reconvicted of a rape within five years, most of which occurred during the first year of the follow-up period (Sturgeon and Taylor, 1980). These same authors reported that among 68 sex offenders not found to be mentally disordered who were paroled in 1973, 19 (28 percent) were reconvicted for a sex offense within five years.

                                In a study of 231 sex offenders placed on probation in Philadelphia between 1966 and 1969, 11 percent were rearrested for a sex offense and 57 percent were rearrested for any offense (Romero and Williams, 1985). Rice, Harris, and Quinsey (1990) conducted a more recent study of 54 rapists who were released from prison before 1983. After four years, 28 percent had a reconviction for a sex offense and 43 percent had a conviction for a violent offense.

                                * * *

                                Studies of the recidivism of child molesters reveal specific patterns of reoffending across victim types and offender characteristics. A study involving mentally disordered sex offenders compared same-sex and opposite-sex child molesters and incest offenders. Results of this five-year follow-up study found that same-sex child molesters had the highest rate of previous sex offenses (53 percent), as well as the highest reconviction rate for sex crimes (30 percent). In comparison, 43 percent of opposite-sex child molesters had prior sex offenses and a reconviction rate for sex crimes of 25 percent, and incest offenders had prior convictions at a rate of 11 percent and a reconviction rate of 6 percent (Sturgeon and Taylor, 1980). Interestingly, the recidivism rate for same-sex child molesters for other crimes against persons was also quite high, with 26 percent having reconvictions for these offenses. Similarly, a number of other studies have found that child molesters have relatively high rates of nonsexual offenses (Quinsey, 1984).

                                * * *

                                As has also previously been observed, it is imperative to distinguish between sex offense recidivism and the commission of other subsequent criminal behavior, as well as the type of current sex offense. One of the most widely recognized meta-analyses of sexual offender recidivism (Hanson and Bussiere, 1998) was structured around these dimensions.

                                Meta-Analysis Studies

                                In Hanson and Bussiere’s meta-analysis, 61 research studies met the criteria for inclusion, with all utilizing a longitudinal design and a comparison group. Across all studies, the average sex offense recidivism rate (as evidenced by rearrest or reconviction) was 18.9 percent for rapists and 12.7 percent for child molesters over a four to five year period. The rate of recidivism for nonsexual violent offenses was 22.1 percent for rapists and 9.9 percent for child molesters, while the recidivism rate for any reoffense for rapists was 46.2 percent and 36.9 percent for child molesters over a four to five year period. However, as has been noted previously and as these authors warn, one should be cautious in the interpretation of the data as these studies involved a range of methods and follow-up periods.
                                Although I did also find this:

                                csom.org is your first and best source for all of the information you’re looking for. From general topics to more of what you would expect to find here, csom.org has it all. We hope you find what you are searching for!


                                Myth:
                                "Most sex offenders reoffend."
                                Fact:
                                Reconviction data suggest that this is not the case. Further, reoffense rates vary among different types of sex offenders and are related to specific characteristics of the offender and the offense.

                                Persons who commit sex offenses are not a homogeneous group, but instead fall into several different categories. As a result, research has identified significant differences in reoffense patterns from one category to another. Looking at reconviction rates alone, one large-scale analysis (Hanson and Bussiere, 1998) reported the following differences:

                                child molesters had a 13% reconviction rate for sexual offenses and a 37% reconviction rate for new, non-sex offenses over a five year period; and
                                rapists had a 19% reconviction rate for sexual offenses and a 46% reconviction rate for new, non-sexual offenses over a five year period.
                                Another study found reconviction rates for child molesters to be 20% and for rapists to be approximately 23% (Quinsey, Rice, and Harris, 1995).
                                Individual characteristics of the crimes further distinguish recidivism rates. For instance, victim gender and relation to the offender have been found to impact recidivism rates. In a 1995 study, researchers found that offenders who had extrafamilial female victims had a recidivism rate of 18% and those who had extrafamilial male victims recidivated at a rate of 35%. This same study found a recidivism rate for incest offenders to be approximately 9% (Quinsey, Rice, and Harris, 1995).

                                It is noteworthy that recidivism rates for sex offenders are lower than for the general criminal population. For example, one study of 108,580 non-sex criminals released from prisons in 11 states in 1983 found that nearly 63% were rearrested for a non-sexual felony or serious misdemeanor within three years of their release from incarceration; 47% were reconvicted; and 41% were ultimately returned to prison or jail (Bureau of Justice Statistics).

                                It is important to note that not all sex crimes are solved or result in arrest and only a fraction of sex offenses are reported to police. The reliance on measures of recidivism as reflected through official criminal justice system data (i.e., rearrest or reconviction rates) obviously omits offenses that are not cleared through an arrest (and thereby cannot be attributed to any individual offender) or those that are never reported to the police. For a variety of reasons, many victims of sexual assault are reluctant to invoke the criminal justice process and do not report their victimization to the police. For these reasons, relying on rearrest and reconviction data underestimates actual reoffense numbers.
                                Now while most (51% or more) offenders may not be repeat offenders, there is still a pretty significant rate of reoffense. If anything, my digging around makes me think there should be similar registers for other non-sex offenders. It would be nice to know that the guy down the block has been convicted of burglary 4 times in the last 20 years, or that your neighbor has a history of assault and battery.

                                I have little tolerance for violent criminals. I really don't know why some people do. It still seems to me to be a matter of comparing offense rates. A sex criminal may have a 20% chance of recidivism versus a 1% chance of being the victim of vigilantism. The numbers are pretty clear to me the chance of recidivism is much greater than the chance of being lynched. But, since vigilantism is illegal and wrong, if you want to give the offender a panic button/911-only cell phone (as are given to battered women) just in case a torch-bearing mob shows up on their porch.

                                Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
                                It still seems to me the best way to avoid being killed by a vigilante with a hard on for corporate crimanals is don't be a corporate criminal.

                                It still seems to me the best way to avoid being killed by a vigilante with a hard on for Democrats is don't be a Democrat.

                                It still seems to me the best way to avoid being killed by a vigilante with a hard on for abortion doctors is don't be an abortion doctor.
                                Except it's not illegal to be a Democrat or abortion doctor. If an angry assassin took out Ken Lay I would demand the arrest and trial of the killer, but would harbor no illusions that Lay was an innocent victim. I'm sure Lay has even gotten death threats. Should he be hidden by the government?

                                I loathe animal abusers. Sadly, it's a crime that the law has seen fit to punish mildly. I can scan the papers and find the names of past offenders, decide they weren't punished enough, find where they live, then wait for them to open their door so I can splash acid in their face. The absence of a registry makes me have to do a little work to find them, but doesn't protect them from reprisal. Anybody with a smidge of dedication and research skills can locate anybody else. Registries make it a little easier, that's all.

                                Do you also oppose gun ownership, Imran? (I can't recall from past threads.) Guns make it easier to kill someone, but the absence of a gun won't be an obstacle for a dedicated killer, and a gun in the hands of a responsible person can increase their personal safety. I think the basic philosophies behind offender registries and gun ownership are similar. I generally approve of gun ownership, like I generally approve of registries.

                                Until we can quantify the comparative rates of reoffense (or community protection from reoffense) versus reprisal, and thus get a real cost/benefit report, this is largely a philosophical discussion.

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