Local British Court declares IDF guilty of murder

[Cort Haus]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4896800.stm

British news media today announced that the IDF were guilty of murder over the shooting of Briton Tom Hurndall in Gaza in 2003.

Whatever the circumstances of the shooting, I don't see why a Coroners Court in London can claim juristiction over the affairs of a sovereign state thousands of miles away. If a self-styled 'peace activist' chooses to intervene in a war zone surely there must exist the possibility of a tragedy.

Solicitor Michael Mansfield QC is demanding extradition of senior Israeli officers to stand trial in Britain.

I know my anti-interventionism is unfashionable, but surely a British court has no right to demand authority over another country. If so, then Brazil could righfully demand the extradition of whoever it chooses (eg: Ian Blair of the Met, PM Tony Blair etc) for murder over the shooting of a Brazilian by police at Stockwell tube station in London.

Ex-soldier Taysir Hayb is serving eight years in jail for the killing of Tom Hurndall.

[Arrian]

Yay for grandstanding! They know they have no jurisdiction. Meanwhile, it seems that Israel actually punished the guy responsible (military justice being what it is in my country, I'm actually surprised the guy got 8 years).

So yeah, I agree and stuff.

-Arrian

[Flip McWho]

Na they can't. No country has jurisdiction over another. It's like one of the main things underpinning the international order.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Flip McWho
Na they can't. No country has jurisdiction over another. It's like one of the main things underpinning the international order.

It certainly used to underpin the international order. Less so these days, which is why this court feels able to strut and pose as if it's a world government. After all, since when did Tony Blair feel restrained by what he feels is an outdated notion of sovereignty?

[Gibsie]

We created Israel, and if they do not yield to our authority we can damn well un-create it too!

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Gibsie
We created Israel, and if they do not yield to our authority we can damn well un-create it too!

The thing is though, contrary to popular thinking, Britain did not create Israel, the United Nations did. Britain actually sided with the Arab League which tried to destroy Israel in 1948 - a little-known fact which was documented from British intelligence sources in The Nation magazine and submitted to the UN in April 1948.

The British Record on Partition

This fact explodes the whole myth of Israel being a colonial state.

[TheStinger]

Uk law states that an UK citizen who dies in vaguely suspicious or unexpected circumstances overseas has to have an inquest, The inquest found he was killed unlawfully. This is not the same as murder it is not a criminal court. The purpose of an inquest is to determine 3 facts, who died, when they died and how they died. As someone has been sent to prison following the death of this chap how can the Inquest verdict b seen as wrong

As for asking for the extradition, that was done by the lawyer representing the dead mans family, it isa long way from the british govt asking for extradition.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by TheStinger
As for asking for the extradition, that was done by the lawyer representing the dead mans family, it isa long way from the british govt asking for extradition.

Indeed, the British Govt are not asking for extradition, but the coroner is writing to the attorney general to investigate the possibility of this.

From The Guardian :

The attorney general was last night called on to seek war crimes charges against five Israeli officers after an inquest jury found that a soldier under their command intentionally killed a British peace activist in Gaza.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Story/0,,1751368,00.html

[Pekka]

It's a joke because they don't have jurisdiction. So why would they do it? Is this one of them puppet courts? You know, spend the money of tax payers on crap like this, that we know is useless and furthermore this does nothing good to Israeli-UK relations anyway, it has no importance so why shake it like that?

That's idiocy 101.

[TheStinger]

Originally posted by Pekka
It's a joke because they don't have jurisdiction. So why would they do it? Is this one of them puppet courts? You know, spend the money of tax payers on crap like this, that we know is useless and furthermore this does nothing good to Israeli-UK relations anyway, it has no importance so why shake it like that?

That's idiocy 101.

They do have jurisdiction to carry out an inquest into the death of any Uk citizen, wherever he dies.

This was an inquest not a trial

[Pekka]

This was idiocy 101.

[Cort Haus]

It's not the inquest, but the subsequent demands that are the issue. An Israeli court has already sentenced a guy for eight years, but both the lawyer and even, it seems, the coroner are talking about extradition and a war crimes trial.

[TheStinger]

I would have thought in hte event of an unlwaful killing verdict a coroner is obliged to write to the attorney general to consider if extradition is appropriate.

It almopst certainly won't be because of teh jurisdiction argument.

As for Michael Mansfield QC ( he's a barrister not a solicitor) he is a very left wing campaigning laywer, his demands carry no more weight than anyone elses.

He basicaly will argue the actions of any government are always wrong just on principle( except Cuba probably)

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by TheStinger
I would have thought in hte event of an unlwaful killing verdict a coroner is obliged to write to the attorney general to consider if extradition is appropriate.

I would have thought that the system of state sovereignty means that a crime on Israeli territory cannot possibly involve a trial in Britain. The guilty party has already been sentenced in the country where the killing took place.

I refer again to the de Menez killing - would the British Government accept extradition demands from Brazil? Of course not, so the attorney general should reject these demands.

[TheStinger]

And he will