Bush Authorized Leak to Times, Libby Told Grand Jury

[Berzerker]

Again he said he would take action (fire whatever) the person that leaked the Plame info not the NIE. People are unfortuantely confusing the two (albeit connected in motive to make the case for war in Iraq)

I understood Plame was in the NIE since her hubby went to Niger on a WMD fact finding mission.

[Darius871]

Originally posted by Berzerker
I understood Plame was in the NIE since her hubby went to Niger on a WMD fact finding mission.

Source? If the NIE segments Libby is referring to included Plame's identity, you'd think one of the dozens of articles on today's revelation would mention that.

Originally posted by Zkribbler
Let's see....
You want the Dems to call for the Republican-controlled House to impeach a Republican President...
To be tried before the Republican-controlled Senate...
Based solely upon hearsay evidence...
In an election year?

I didn't say it would happen or even be proposed in the House in the first place, I meant it would be called for in their rhetoric.

[Zkribbler]

Based upon such flimsy evidence, you can't even make rhetorical cries for impeachment. You have to make rhetorical cries for an independent prosecutor

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by Berzerker


I understood Plame was in the NIE since her hubby went to Niger on a WMD fact finding mission.

Nope. I'll dig up the link to declassified portions of the NIE and post later on.

Found it here.

[Guynemer]

Originally posted by Sava


oh come on

ITS NOT LIKE HE SHOT A GUY IN THE FACE






is that joke old yet?

No. It still makes me laugh like a ****ing hyena to even think about it.

[Zkribbler]

"DUCK!!"
"Where??"
KABOOM!!!!

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Ogie Oglethorpe
Again he said he would take action (fire whatever) the person that leaked the Plame info not the NIE. People are unfortuantely confusing the two (albeit connected in motive to make the case for war in Iraq)

The Modus Operandi was the same in both. If Bush authorized one then I'd bet the farm that he also knew and authorized the other. This is very similiar to the wire tap evolution where initially they said it was only calls to and from over seas, then it was US Citizens in the US who were calling over seas, and now we've learned it is also US citizens in the US calling other US citizens in the US. It's been one lie after another. Most people just aren't willing to give them the benifet of the doubt any more and now it is just a question of will Congress be honest enough to punish illegal activity or if they will be so partisan as to allow a corrupt President to walk free from his crimes.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by dannubis
Damn, haven't you guys got enough on Bush to get rid of him already ? I mean, Nixon was kicked out for less ...

There is no doubt there there exists a sufficent case to impeach him. Hell, they (wrongly) impeached Clinton for doing 1/10th what Bush has done but the fact is the Congress is controlled by the Republican Party who is so partisan and such a rubber stamp that they likely won't enforce the law on Bush because Bush is in their party. We're stuck unless the Democrats win the next election (in November) in which case someone can finally enforce the law.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
"DUCK!!"
"Where??"
KABOOM!!!!

That's why everyone in the military says "Down!" or "Hit the deck!".

[Berzerker]

Source? If the NIE segments Libby is referring to included Plame's identity, you'd think one of the dozens of articles on today's revelation would mention that.

Chris Matthews on Hardball hit on this several times back when it was news, Plame's identity was in that report according to Matthews.

Ogie, you trust Peter King? I dont, I've seen him too many times on Fox spewing the WH line. And your link is what the WH has de-classified from the NIE, so you want me to trust the Bushies too?

I dont know for sure if Plame was in the NIE, but why wouldn't she be? If not her, Wilson and his trip to Niger was undoubtedly in the report.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Darius871
People are getting their leaks mixed up here - it might be a good idea to read more than headlines.

Bush has commited so many crimes people can't keep them straight.

[Dinner]

I am interested in this "the President can declassify anything he likes" argument. What exactly does the act of Congress say? Does Congress give the President carte blanche or did the Congress specify that it was a crime to do certain things? That would seem to absolutely anwser certain claims made by Bush supporters.

If the law says something along the lines of it is a crime to do X, Y, or Z and the law was duly passed by Congress then there is jack cheese the executive can do about it. I've just seen to many faked arguments about illegal wire taps, the legality of torture, and claims that constitutional rights don't apply to all citizens (much less all people) to believe anything this administration says. They are clearly less law abiding then Nixon and I had thought it was not possible for such people to reach high office.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Berzerker
Chris Matthews on Hardball hit on this several times back when it was news, Plame's identity was in that report according to Matthews.

Ogie, you trust Peter King? I dont, I've seen him too many times on Fox spewing the WH line. And your link is what the WH has de-classified from the NIE, so you want me to trust the Bushies too?

I dont know for sure if Plame was in the NIE, but why wouldn't she be? If not her, Wilson and his trip to Niger was undoubtedly in the report.

Dear lord! The Bushies have lost Bezerker! All hope for them is lost.

[Darius871]

Originally posted by Berzerker

Chris Matthews on Hardball hit on this several times back when it was news, Plame's identity was in that report according to Matthews.

Ogie, you trust Peter King? I dont, I've seen him too many times on Fox spewing the WH line. And your link is what the WH has de-classified from the NIE, so you want me to trust the Bushies too?

I dont know for sure if Plame was in the NIE, but why wouldn't she be? If not her, Wilson and his trip to Niger was undoubtedly in the report.

Libby admitted to leaking in July 2003 the same segments of the NIE that were officially declassified later that month: namely the "Key Judgments" section and a few other paragraphs relevant to the public debate sparked by Wilson's op-ed (click here to see what specific segments; Ogie's link is actually to a different October 2002 release). As you can see, these amount to general conclusions from the intelligence community and contain no sensitive information whatsoever, let alone the identity of covert agents.

Keep in mind that the publicly released version of the complete NIE has 79 out of 93 pages completely whited out to this day, with the remainder only amounting to what was previously declassified in July 2003. If Valerie Plame's identity was in the NIE (which is very likely as Matthews notes), it's still in those classified segments.

Is it possible that Libby leaked more of the NIE's contents than he's admitting to? Of course. The segments he admits to leaking, however, are completely innocuous. Only one thing was firmly established today: Bush and co. tried to inform the public of what info the intelligence community gave them on Iraq's nuclear ambitions, so as to save face after Wilson called bull**** on them. Just who outed Plame (and with whose authorization) is still up in the air for the foreseeable future.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Originally posted by Oerdin
I am interested in this "the President can declassify anything he likes" argument. What exactly does the act of Congress say? Does Congress give the President carte blanche or did the Congress specify that it was a crime to do certain things? That would seem to absolutely anwser certain claims made by Bush supporters.

If the law says something along the lines of it is a crime to do X, Y, or Z and the law was duly passed by Congress then there is jack cheese the executive can do about it. I've just seen to many faked arguments about illegal wire taps, the legality of torture, and claims that constitutional rights don't apply to all citizens (much less all people) to believe anything this administration says. They are clearly less law abiding then Nixon and I had thought it was not possible for such people to reach high office.

Its not congress's purview, it's all laid out in executive order. Specifically, Executive order 13292. See here. I've read it and agree with the DU loser that there are several instances that even the President can't declassify information (despite him being the ultimate power that classifcation is derived from, interesting self limitation on the office of the Presidency), but I don't see anything that prohibits the NIE information that was declassified from entering into the public sphere.

On a seperate matter, if Plame was truly a covert operative, then certainly the executive order that the DU poster references makes clear that her identity can not be declassified without revision/countermanding of the executive order. But since the information in question is NOT related in anyway to Plame's identity this point is moot. Hence the President was properly speaking when he discussed Plame leakers (assuming she falls into the category of covert operative) should be penalized to the full extent of the law, fired, whatever.