Good news from Arkansas! (Minimum wage increase)

[Jon Miller]

people, these things aren't simple linear functions...

JM

[Jon Miller]

so you who are against raising the minimum wage, think we should remove it, right?

because every argument you give for flat out no raise of it, could be used for having it in the first place

need I remind you what life was like back when there was no minimum wage..?

JM

[notyoueither]

I'm not against raising the min wage, but then again McDonalds around here can't keep people at the min.

The only people making min wage are unemployable anywhere else. Raising it and putting some of them out of work would be a bummer.

But keep in knid I am talking about a booming economy. There was a time when bar jobs were hard to get, because nobody was quitting because there were no jobs to move to.

[Velociryx]

quote:
Originally posted by Velociryx
an even better idea, peg the minimum wage to politician salaries


That's the best idea I've ever seen you have.

Ahhh....then you should pay more attention. But I admit, it's a pretty good one, and I'd LOVE to see something like this. Really put the politicians' feet to the flames.

-=Vel=-

[Dinner]

I would like some study proving that minimium wage earners are mostly in their teens. I for one notice an aweful lot of Latin American immigrants working what are normally minimium wage or very close to minimium wage jobs. The majority of those immigrants are not in their teens.

Think about the people who make less then $8 per hour (basically minimium wage earners and people who might be effected by future minimium wage changes). Atleast in my state they are agricultural workers, janitors, fastfood workers, mass mailers, paper delivery people, gardeners, and similiar activities. The vast, vast majority of those jobs are held by adult immigrants and not kids.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Adam Smith
Its not just about going bankrupt. Firms can substitute capital for labor, or higher-paid, more experienced labor for less skilled labor. Either reaction hurts the people the minimum wage is intended to help by pushing the lowest skilled workers off the bottom rung of the ladder.

Sometimes yes but often no which is why your theory sometimes doesn't work in the real world. There just isn't much difference between an experienced janitor and a janitor with 5 years experience. After all there isn't much of a learning curve to sweeping, unclogging drains, and emptying trash cans. This is typically the skills and types of duties someone performs at minimium wage. It is very hard to automate such jobs and it is hard to find more skilled workers willing to do this work.

Raise the minimium wage enough and we will see the negative side effects you have spoken about. That said you are giving your theory to much weight because if it was calibrated and effected things as strongly as you imply then we wouldn't expect to see the UK with a 45% greater minimium wage law but still havingg lower unemployment. Clearly there are a lot of factors at play; factors which amount to more influence upon the decision making process then just the gross wage. California has a relatively high minimium but has seen unemployment go lower since it enacted the minimium wage increases. Once again it just shows that 1) your theory is correct when all things are held equal it is a net negative to employment 2) that you are vastly overstating the importance or weight of this factor because if it was half as important as you imply then places like the UK or California would be virtual depressions for the low skilled while the opposite is true. Shouldn't real world experience be a consideration?

[Dinner]

Originally posted by notyoueither
I'm not against raising the min wage, but then again McDonalds around here can't keep people at the min.

That's the single best arguement I have heard about increasing the minimium wage and likely the best reason for the relatively small to no impact the minimium wage increases have had in the past. Namely that the market has already passed the old minimium wage rate and that a shortage of labor has resulted in everyone already paying wages higher then the minimium. In such a condition, a not at all uncommon condition, the minimium wage could be increased with little negative side effects.

I personally feel that such a move can only occur after years of neglect by the political powers and that instead minimium wage should be indexed to inflation.

[Flip McWho]

people, these things aren't simple linear functions...

I thought i'd just offered a fairly comprehensive economic look at how raising the minimum wage doesn't affect unemployment.

Raising the minimum wage will have sweet bippy of an effect if the raise is anywhere between .01c and a buck in any one raise. In fact the raise is good for the economy because we have people who are now earning more going out and spending that money in the domestic economy. They're not investing, they're out there buying that luxury they've been dreaming about. These people are driving your economy.

need I remind you what life was like back when there was no minimum wage..?

Exactly.

I personally feel that such a move can only occur after years of neglect by the political powers and that instead minimium wage should be indexed to inflation.

Yeah sounds good. Though indexing it to inflation could drive inflation too couldn't it?

[Gibsie]

I like the notion that increasing minimum wage gives more spending power, if we're talking about giving tax cuts to billion dollar corporations, that's all the right-wingers go on about, but they never even consider that to be a good thing with low earners (At least, not in this thread).

[mrmitchell]

Let's hope you never need to buy things like furniture, either, or a TV to watch that basic cable package upon, and a PC for that broadband package. When you're poor, companies also demand more by way of deposits from you, too.

Are you kidding? You don't need TV or internet if you can't afford it. People made their own entertainment for millions of years before the 20th century.

I'm thinking our Minimum Wage Joe could go fishing in his free hours. Saves some money in the grocery budget, too.

But everywhere outside the deepest pits of south AR, it's almost impossible to live on minimum wage. Even here you can't live on it comfortably.

[Gibsie]

Oh come on mrmitchellman, the context of my statement about the TV and PC there is included in that very post, how did you manage to miss it?! darius had posted in his list of how one could live on minimum wage that $80 a month would cover CABLE and BROADBAND costs. My point there was that if he really thought a typical minimum wage earner could have their own PC, then he was really out of touch with what it's like to be that poor. Although, as it turned out, he was giving an example of how -he- could live on minimum wage, not a typical worker.

[Apocalypse]

What's wrong with working more than 40 hours a week? What's wrong with not being a lazy ****?

[Flip McWho]

40 hrs a week is kinda just the standard bench mark. Many do do extra.

I know I do over the summer

[Adam Smith]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Shouldn't real world experience be a consideration?

That's why people look at the data and do controlled studies.

I give up.

[Dinner]

Smith, I've already agreed that it has a negative impact on employment and have said that controlled studies prove that. What I'm arguing about is the degree of the negative effects on employmnet vs the positives of increased spending power for a portion of the population. Surely a smart guy like you can follow that.