Atheists identified as America’s most distrusted minority

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by DinoDoc
Even more distrusted than commies?

Yeah, how did that happen?

[Sikander]

Whaleboy - things are heating up here at work, and in any event I have to go soon.

You are correct in that I am trying to fight for open mindedness in an argument made difficult by the absolute nature of monotheism in particular. Science does not define me or my thoughts and feelings in all regards, and I find it particularly unhelpful in regards to exploring my mind and senses with freedom, as there is almost always some ass who wants to naysay what I feel and he doesn't. Hence my pointing out that what we know is a thimblefull and what we don't an ocean.

[Elok]

Communists are no longer influential enough to take seriously (in the U.S., at least). The atheists might actually accomplish something, which is why they tend to be feared and hated.

[Whaleboy]

Whaleboy - things are heating up here at work, and in any event I have to go soon.

Sure that's cool... one of the perils of debating in different timezones . At least I've got the day off, so can devote my time to avoiding important stuff.

Science does not define me or my thoughts and feelings in all regards, and I find it particularly unhelpful in regards to exploring my mind and senses with freedom, as there is almost always some ass who wants to naysay what I feel and he doesn't. Hence my pointing out that what we know is a thimblefull and what we don't an ocean.

Very true . What I do know is that our knowledge is ever-expanding, one must be positive about the future of human understanding because that's in our nature. I think, then, it's far more useful to talk about "how" we know things... so if you like, scientific method is a cistern for knowledge that is far from full.

Of course, we all know things as individuals that we may not be able to rationalise, or provide evidence for, but I think that in a discussion where you are trying to communicate certain things and provide evidence (individual philosophies on trial if you like), certain things have meaning and certain things are meaningless. That is why I always try to be careful about the arbitrary nature of revelation and "feeling" that there is a presence we call God. Makes far more sense then to decide first "what is existence or not"? It's a question very clever people have been trying to answer for 3 millenia, and I'm not going to succeed in the 20 minutes before my pizza arrives .

[Whaleboy]

The atheists might actually accomplish something, which is why they tend to be feared and hated.

That's interesting, because atheists (or should I say, secularism) is far more influential in Europe, but we're not feared or hated. What might atheism accomplish that is so scary, when evangelism in the US seems to be achieving retardation, homophobia, and fearful attitudes on sexual health among other things, all of which are imo more scary than anything atheism might achieve.

"Oh God, it's the Enlightenment.... RUN!!"

[Wycoff]

The debate between agnosticism and athiesm is interesting, but I don't think that most Americans differentiate between the two positions. The two positions are lumped together in most religious surveys that I've seen.

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
I think you would be surprised.

JM

Not really. I've been exposed to a pretty wide cross section of the 18-30 age group, a group diverse in both geography and class. I think that my estimation may even be a bit conservative.

[Whaleboy]

Wycoff, no offence, but I'll be ice skating on the Styx before I start listening to "most Americans" on the subject of religion.

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by Whaleboy
Wycoff, no offence, but I'll be ice skating on the Styx before I start listening to "most Americans" on the subject of religion.

You misinterpreted my post. I wasn't saying that you should. My comment didn't have anything to do with the substance of your debate. I was saying that, for the purposes of distrust (the topic of this thread), I'd guarantee that athiests and agnostics are lumped together and distrusted as one big mass of non-believers.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by Elok
Communists are no longer influential enough to take seriously (in the U.S., at least). The atheists might actually accomplish something, which is why they tend to be feared and hated.

I didn't know they had an agenda.

[Kidlicious]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


We're a subset of athiests.

Not me.

[SlowwHand]

I don't trust dwarves any further than I can toss one.

[Elok]

Perhaps I didn't speak too clearly. I don't think there is a sinister atheist agenda or anything. I don't distrust atheists as such, I just think some of them act awfully bigoted and stupid sometimes, considering that they're supposed to be the "enlightened" community. I am in the minority, however.

Atheist communities are active and prominent in ways that the commies haven't been for decades now. Look at Madelyn Murray O'Hare (sp?), for example. Very belligerent, very strident, and she seemed to have no other objective but to remove religion from public life. Her goals may have been plain separation of church and state, but her rhetoric made it easy for some to fear worse.

The situation is rather ticklish anyways. This country has changed a lot since the fifties; Roe v. Wade is just one example of the cultural shift that leaves fundamentalists feeling like the rug's been pulled out from under them. This used to be "their" country, home of apple pie and spelling bees and whatever other kitschy innocuous Garrison-Keillor crap they like to allude to. Which is why the "Christian" right is on the defensive. They've lost tremendous power and influence over the years, and they're fighting to get it back.

Then you get people declaring a new age of reason and blahblahblah, stuff like the Skeptic's Annotated Bible and other pushy-heathen resources go up...these seem to have come about as a response to the upsurge in white-bread America's proselytizing, but from their perspective it's an attack on the faith anyway. So they circle the wagons, start hitting harder and more directly, which provokes a fiercer reaction in turn...kind of like the situation in the Middle East.

[MrFun]

I cannot understand how atheists have it "bad" here in United States as a group.


And as for disrespect -- disrespect towards one group by another is bad all around. Atheists who refuse to respect those who have a religious belief are not deserving of any understanding or respect in return. And same goes with religious people who refuse to respect atheists.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
We're a subset of athiests.

Explain Jon Miller then.