Will this kill US support for the War on Terror?

[Winston]

We should make a determined effort to point out to the Afghani authorities that the prosecution of this man on those charges is in violation of both the U.N. charter on human rights and the country's own constitution. I very much doubt this particular trial will lead to an actual conviction.

How Afghans in general are going to exercise their right to freedom of religion is another matter. Far more depressing really, when you think about it.

[C0ckney]

this truely sucks the big one.

[MRT144]

democracy without a sane secular rule of law is worthless.

[Wezil]

Looks like they found their way out of this.

KABUL (CP) - An Afghan man facing a possible death penalty for converting from Islam to Christianity may be mentally unfit to stand trial, a state prosecutor said Wednesday amid growing international condemnation of the case.

Abdul Rahman, 41, has been charged with rejecting Islam, a crime under this country's Islamic laws. His trial started last week and he confessed to becoming a Christian 16 years ago. If convicted, he could be executed. "We think he could be mad. He is not a normal person. He doesn't talk like a normal person," prosecutor Sarinwal Zamari told The Associated Press.

Moayuddin Baluch, a religious adviser to President Hamid Karzai, said Rahman would undergo a psychological examination.

"If he is mentally unfit, definitely Islam has no claim to punish him," he said. "He must be forgiven. The case must be dropped."

A western diplomat in Kabul and a human rights advocate - both of whom spoke on condition of anonymity because of the sensitivity of the matter - said the government was desperately searching for a way to drop the case.

Canada, the United States and other countries that have troops in Afghanistan have voiced concern about Rahman's fate.

Prime Minister Stephen Harper discussed the issue with Karzai in a telephone call Wednesday.

"President Karzai listened to my concerns and we had a productive and informative exchange of views," Harper said in a statement.

"Upon the conclusion of the call, he assured me that respect for human and religious rights will be fully upheld in this case."

Franklin Pyles, president of the Christian and Missionary Alliance in Canada, said his organization is appalled Rahman's life is at risk for converting to Christianity.

"If we are not going to fight for all freedoms, then what are we doing (in Afghanistan)?"

The United Church of Canada suggested in a letter to Foreign Affairs Minister Peter MacKay that the government use its position in Afghanistan - 2,200 troops are in the country's south as part of a Canadian-led multinational brigade - to promote human rights.

These rights include "the rights of Afghans to choose and change religion without fear of losing their lives," the letter said.

In Washington, President George W. Bush said he was "deeply troubled" and expects Afghanistan to "honour the universal principle of freedom."

NATO's top diplomat, Jaap de Hoop Scheffer, said he would call Karzai to insist the case be dropped.

A spokesman for Karzai, Khaleeq Ahmed, said the government would not interfere in the case but that the government "will make sure human rights are observed."

The case is believed to be the first of its kind in Afghanistan and highlights a struggle between religious conservatives and reformists over what shape Islam should take four years after the ouster of the fundamentalist Taliban regime.

Afghanistan's constitution is based on the Shariah, which is interpreted by some Muslims to require that any Muslim who rejects Islam be sentenced to death. The state-sponsored Afghanistan Independent Human Rights Commission has called for Rahman to be punished, arguing he clearly violated Islamic law.

It was not immediately clear when Rahman would be examined or when the trial would resume.

Television footage of Rahman at last week's hearing shows him leafing through a Bible before saying, "They want to sentence me to death and I accept it, but I am not a deserter and not an infidel. I am a Christian, which means I believe in the Trinity."

With close-cropped hair and a beard, and dressed in a baggy shirt and pants, Rahman spoke in a level voice and waved his hands in an imploring gesture.

Rahman's neighbours in Kabul showed little sympathy for him.

"For 30 years, we have fought religious wars in this country and there is no way we are going to allow an Afghan to insult us by becoming Christian," said Mohammed Jan, 38, who lives opposite Rahman's father, Abdul Manan. "This has brought so much shame."

Rahman is believed to have converted to Christianity while working as a medical aid worker for an international Christian group helping Afghan refugees in Pakistan. He then moved to Germany for nine years before returning to Kabul in 2002, after the ouster of the Taliban regime.

Police arrested him last month after discovering him in possession of a Bible during questioning over a dispute over custody of his two daughters.

[Chemical Ollie]

Originally posted by Whoha
---

We've blown up most of Al-Qaeda's stuff on the northern side of the border. everything on the southern side of the border is still there though.

Very sharp analysis

[JimmyCracksCorn]

Whats the big deal? The US executes people all the time, the fact that its for different reasons is irrelevent.

[Dr Strangelove]

Hey, what a great idea! Let's reply in kind. Wasn't Muhammed Ali a Christian as a child? What if we put the greatest muslim athlete in the world on trial for heresy, and threaten to burn him at the stake, or load him down with stones and see if he drowns when dumped into a river??

[Q Classic]

I have a feeling if this were about a Muslim converting to Buddhism, people in America wouldn't give a flying ****.

That's assuming they give a flying **** now, which I'm not too sure of, honestly.

[Odin]

Originally posted by MRT144
democracy without a sane secular rule of law is worthless.

Unfortunately, in the Islamic world democracy almost always means the election of Islamist populists like Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood. Assuming other the people of other civilizations will accept the Western values of religious freedom, seperation of church and state, free expression, and human rights is an act of Western Universalist arrogance on the level of Francis Fukuyama and other people trying to act as if Western values are universal values. To a person living in a muslim society seperation of church and state is unthinkable blasphemy. Diferent civilizations, different worldviews. We may not like it, but thats the way it is.

[Datajack Franit]

PRAISE ALLAH!

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Winston
We should make a determined effort to point out to the Afghani authorities that the prosecution of this man on those charges is in violation of both the U.N. charter on human rights and the country's own constitution. I very much doubt this particular trial will lead to an actual conviction.

How Afghans in general are going to exercise their right to freedom of religion is another matter. Far more depressing really, when you think about it.

Certainly as long as Denmark doesn't lead the negotiotions.


Maybe you could draw them a cartoon with a dude with his chopped off with a big red X on it. You guys are good at the cartoons and diplomacy.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Odin


Unfortunately, in the Islamic world democracy almost always means the election of Islamist populists like Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood. Assuming other the people of other civilizations will accept the Western values of religious freedom, seperation of church and state, free expression, and human rights is an act of Western Universalist arrogance on the level of Francis Fukuyama and other people trying to act as if Western values are universal values. To a person living in a muslim society seperation of church and state is unthinkable blasphemy. Diferent civilizations, different worldviews. We may not like it, but thats the way it is.

How about just trying to pay attention to the UN UDoHRs?

If human rights are a 'western' value, why have people the world over rioted to get them?

[notyoueither]

And if we're going to spend the lives of hundreds or thousands of our soldiers, and thousands or tens of thousands of their people, shouldn't we at least try to leave behind something that some of their own citizens won't feel a need to flee on pain of death?

[Gatekeeper]

Originally posted by Q Cubed
I have a feeling if this were about a Muslim converting to Buddhism, people in America wouldn't give a flying ****.

That's assuming they give a flying **** now, which I'm not too sure of, honestly.

Y'know, there comes a time when an outrage is an outrage, no more, no less. To me, an individual being threatened with *death* for converting from one faith to another simply pisses me off as a human being — it offends my sense of fairness, among other things. That I'm an American is a secondary or tertiary issue to the main matter at hand: A man is being threatened with death for switching faiths which, ironically, claim to worship the *same* god.

Gatekeeper

[Jon Miller]

I think there needs to be some serious talks between Jews, Christians, and Muslims. And the recognition that we do all claim to serve the same God.

JM