French labour laws trigger immense protests

[Az]

we're gonna continue to take it up the ass, have 10%+ unemployment because thats what we like

Because REAL MEN aren't afraid of being fired without reason

[Shi Huangdi]

You know, I can't imagine how hard it would be to find a job with 20% unemployment. Unemployment under the height of the boom during the Clinton years, when it seemed like employers were desperate to find employees, was just under 4%. Unemployment during the height of the recession during the Bush years, when people complained about the impossibility of finding work, was just over 6%. If a swing of just 2% is able to cause such a swing in the difficulty of getting a job, I can't imagine how hard it must be with France's unemployment numbers...

[Lawrence of Arabia]

1. The ability to hire people does exist. The ability to fire people does also exist: only that you have to justify why you fire a person.
Among the accepted justifications for firing, there are economic reasons (drop in activity) or grave failure of the employee's.
Also, there are plenty of contract-types that allow to hire workers for a specific period of time, so that it matches a temporary increase in activity. I have a personal experience of this: the past two weeks, I have been working at a soon-to-be-opened store, where I got daily contracts and daily paysheets.

je m'éxcuse, mais tu racontes des conneries.
le calcul est vite fait: avec un taux de chômages de 20%, voir plus, pour les jeunes, il y a un problem, et ce problem c'est que le marché du travail n'est pas assez flexible. et c'est la raison pour laquelle il n'y a que des postes temporaires qui sont créés par les entreprises. et ça c'est bien connu. donc, la france a le choix entre deux chemins - vous pouvez rester sur le chemin ou vous êtes à présent, et à la fin de la journée, être niqué par le reste du monde, ou vous pouvez aborder des réformes. je ne sais pas si ils vont marcher, mais ce qui est claire c'est que vous n'avez rien a perdre de tout façon, parce que l'économie de la france est en train de caler, et il faut agir maintenant.

et je ne doute pas que le malaise qui atteint la france à présent est directment lié au marché du travail.

[Shi Huangdi]

Originally posted by Az

we're gonna continue to take it up the ass, have 10%+ unemployment because thats what we like

Because REAL MEN aren't afraid of being fired without reason

No sane company is going to just hire a worker and then sack him/her without a real economic reason to do so. A whole lot of money is spent recruiting employees, sorting through job applicants to find one to hire, and then training the employee. All of that is done in hopes of getting a long term payoff from the employee working there for a long period of time. If the employee is fired so soon after hiring, then that is money down the drain.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

You know, I can't imagine how hard it would be to find a job with 20% unemployment.

there is 7% unemployment here, and i havnt found a job in 4 months. in france, its 3% more overall. i cant even imagine what its like over there, because here, its nearly impossible.

[Alexander's Horse]

firstly the youth unemployment rate is a bit of a myth because most youth are still studying up to say 22, those unemployed are a small fraction of the total age group, which is why you get a high number

secondly, France is broke, its national debt is horrendous - two or three times GDP. It cannot keep borrowing to pay social security and this is why this step has been taken. There will be more pain in France

[Fake Boris]

.

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
france is a sick country. first youve got the poor immigrants rioting, now you have the rich middle class students, hijacking the universities from those who need to get their studies done. when you have 20%+ unemployment for the poor, you need to change something.
these students think its the return of may 68. if you wanna strike, or whatever, go ahead, but dont occupy the universities.

That's ridiculous, the only way you can effectively strike is by blocking, else the exams are held anyway and those that strike are penalized.

what nobody has said here (i think) is what the contrat première embauche actually does:

an employer can fire any employee under the age of 26 and with less than 2 years of work at will. that employee will then get 2000 euros a month (or something like that ) for the next three months, after which he can then get unemployment benefits.

No. With the CPE, no benefits if you get fired in four months or less. After four months, you get a reduced benefit (like 500€ a month). After 6, you get normal benefits.

i hope the government breaks the rich students. you guys better get your heads outta your butts, or else in 20 years, china will have passed you.

I wish BAMs like you would think more before posting. You have no clue about who is striking, you have no idea how rich they are, and you completely ignore that the srikes were decided upon in assemblies.

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
secondly, France is broke, its national debt is horrendous - two or three times GDP. It cannot keep borrowing to pay social security and this is why this step has been taken. There will be more pain in France

False, it is 66%. The same as America.

[Az]

No sane company is going to just hire a worker and then sack him/her without a real economic reason to do so. A whole lot of money is spent recruiting employees, sorting through job applicants to find one to hire, and then training the employee. All of that is done in hopes of getting a long term payoff from the employee working there for a long period of time. If the employee is fired so soon after hiring, then that is money down the drain.

You'd think so, heh?

True story: I was working for this Industrial developement lab for one company a couple of months ago. They are in deep **** in terms of schedule. I mean DEEP ****. The project was running for a couple of years without much progress or work being done, and the contracts are about to run out, so now they're in a huge hurry by the parent company to solve this stuff for them. Their product suffers from a couple of serious defects, and can hinder their sales seriously, plus it's one of their biggest sales items, if not THE biggest.

However, the lab ( who's a wholly-owned subsidiary of the company in trouble ) lost an outside contract for a different company, in developing something completely different. So guess what? I have to go! . They called me two months later begging me to come back. **** off, tossers.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

No. With the CPE, no benefits if you get fired in four months or less. After four months, you get a reduced benefit (like 500€ a month). After 6, you get normal benefits.

you're right, I just looked it up. on top, they get 8% of their salary if they are fired by the employer (when its not their fault)

I wish BAMs like you would think more before posting. You have no clue about who is striking, you have no idea how rich they are, and you completely ignore that the srikes were decided upon in assemblies.

from Le Figaro, friday 17 march 2006

"les antigrévistes ont mis l'accent sur le caractère <> de l'AG de 800 personnes qui a décidé du blocage, au regard des 14 500 étudiants"

"A toulouse comme ailleurs, les AG ne sont effectivement pas toujours représentatives, d'ou les tensions grandissantes"

"Des référendums sur la poursuite des blocages ont parailleurs été empêchés a plusieurs reprises. A Rennes-II, une cinquantaine d'étudiants d'extrème gauche ont empêché le scrutin. A Tours comme à Dijon, des votes favorables au déblocage de la fac n'ont pas été pris en compte"

translation:

"the anti-strikers highlighted the fact that the students associations were 'minoirites" who were making the decision for going on strike for all 14 500 students"

"In Toulouse, and other places, the student associations are not representative of the student body, which creates tensions"

"Votes to end the strike were prevented in some universities. At Rennes-II, around 50 extreme left students prevented a vote from taking place. In Tours as well as Dijon, all votes in favor of ending the strike were not taken into account"

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by Oncle Boris


False, it is 66%. The same as America.

hmmm, let's see, who do I believe, Boris or the Economist

[Colonâ„¢]

http://epp.eurostat.cec.eu.int/pls/portal/docs/PAGE/PGP_PRD_CAT_PREREL/PGE_CAT_PREREL_YEAR_2005/PGE_CAT_PREREL_YEAR_2005_MONTH_09/2-26092005-EN-AP.PDF

Government debt stood at 65.1% of GDP in 2004. It's been rapidly growing though.

[Az]

I think Boris is right, AH. linkie?

[Alexander's Horse]

I'm talking about total debt, he's talking about government debt