"You have forfeited your right to live"

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by Sava

I've still yet to hear an explanation of how keeping murderers alive is of any benefit to society.

How is keeping you alive of any benefit to society?

[laurentius]

Originally posted by Richelieu


What?

Ah, my bad I mixed Carlie and the judge. So the one playing God here is of course the judge Andrew Owens , not Carlie Brucia.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Last Conformist

How is keeping you alive of any benefit to society?

Do you want a serious answer?

I have assets that are taxed. Aside from that, I consume and spend... getting taxed again.

There's more... like my function as a citizen... voting, etc... my personal relationships, my family, etc...

but I think you were just trolling


btw, I'll ask you the same question


And if the purpose of your troll/question was to insinuate my worth as a person or lackthereof... all you did was demonstrate that a murderer has NO WORTH at all.

Supporting my point.

thx

[Q Classic]

Honestly, I can't support/condone the death penalty in this case. He has the right to live. He doesn't, however, still deserve his right to live humanly (or, humanely, actually).

Paying a Thai Prison to take care of him, on the other hand, sure, I can get behind that. And if he should catch the bird flu and fail to get proper treatment, well, we'll just have to take it up with Thai Prison Management now, won't we? And we'll get to that right after we finish with balancing the budget.

Actually, on second thought, forget the Thai Prisons. We'll just declare him an "enemy combatant", grant him Iraqi citizenship, and have him imprisoned there.

[Last Conformist]

@Sava: You've got taxable assets? Forgive a certain surprise on that point.

Well, if financial concerns are it, put the murderer to work. America being America, this would be run by private entrepreneurs, creating a demand for convicts, increasing support for the Drug War.

As for voting, well, don't strip felons of the right to vote. Duh! You can't seriously suggest that murders don't have personal relationships or families, so I'm not gonna address that.

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by Oerdin
After years of taking part and seeing the same tired old arguments which never changed I have stopped taking part in those debates. They're just dumb.

Same here. I don't waste too much of my time arguing with those who already have their minds made up.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Last Conformist
@Sava: You've got taxable assets? Forgive a certain surprise on that point.

Well, if financial concerns are it, put the murderer to work. America being America, this would be run by private entrepreneurs, creating a demand for convicts, increasing support for the Drug War.

oh wow... this sounds like a great idea

forced labor

and you are opposed to DP on MORAL GROUNDS?

As for voting, well, don't strip felons of the right to vote. Duh! You can't seriously suggest that murders don't have personal relationships or families, so I'm not gonna address that.

more great ideas

allowing felons to vote

and I'm sure murdering people is a great way to boost family relationships


YOU ARE BATTING 1.000 TODAY

[Apocalypse]

Bill O'Rly wants to abolish the death penalty and have people do hard labor...I think he mentioned Alaska or something.

There are a lot of people who would support hard labor over the death penalty, but there are just far more who are against hard labor than the death penalty.

[Q Classic]

Well, here's the thing with making our own gulags and hard labor.

For one thing, they probably would get paid peanuts, if at all. Meaning that the laborers would likely be... well, indentured servants at best.

What's worse, with the majority of convicted criminals (the justice system arguably having a bias) being people of darker pigmentation... and with the perceived notion that many of the guards and the people in charge, the "man", if you will, being those of lighter pigmentation...

Well. Y'know.

Not to mention the gulags are just a bit too communist for most people's tastes--y'know, those who're damn proud of the red, white, and blue, to the point where dissent is, y'know--anti-patriotic. Ignoring the fact that some countries of that pinko persuasion (communist, not gay) have red, white, and blue on their flags as well.

[Ecthy]

DP

(Eurocom speaking)

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by Q Cubed
Well, here's the thing with making our own gulags and hard labor.

For one thing, they probably would get paid peanuts, if at all. Meaning that the laborers would likely be... well, indentured servants at best.

What's worse, with the majority of convicted criminals (the justice system arguably having a bias) being people of darker pigmentation... and with the perceived notion that many of the guards and the people in charge, the "man", if you will, being those of lighter pigmentation...

Well. Y'know.

Not to mention the gulags are just a bit too communist for most people's tastes--y'know, those who're damn proud of the red, white, and blue, to the point where dissent is, y'know--anti-patriotic. Ignoring the fact that some countries of that pinko persuasion (communist, not gay) have red, white, and blue on their flags as well.

The worst part about having prisoners do hard labor is that it takes away jobs from otherwise law abiding people. Let's say you use criminals to work in mines... there go all the well paying mining jobs, putting whole communities into joblessness and economic despair. It would just be another way to undermine honest worker's rights (no wonder O'Reilly supports it).

[asleepathewheel]

A fun website: prodeathpenalty.com

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Oerdin


On the contraire, it acts as a deterent to future crimes. And before you ask for cites please realize that we've all been through this a million times and it always boils down to one side posting obviously biased anti-DP studies, the other other side posting obviously biased pro-DP studies, and then there is a small middle ground of actual well done scientific studies which say there is some deterent effect but it is small especially since it can take decades between the crime and when the sentence is served.

No it doesn't.

The death penalty has a negligible effect on crime. Certainly nothing compared to the cost of it. The people who say different are the same sort of people who say abortion causes cancer.

It doesn't matter anyway... even if it did deter crime it's still unjustified because its not a necessary means of detering crime.

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by Agathon
It doesn't matter anyway... even if it did deter crime it's still unjustified because its not a necessary means of detering crime.

Is life in prison any more of a deterrant than the death penalty?

EDIT: I don't really care about the death penalty deterrant argument. People willing to commit D.P. worthy crimes (like kidnapping, raping, and murdering a random little girl) are going to do the crimes regardless of the punishment, because they are dangerous sociopaths.

[asleepathewheel]

I have an admittedly skewed view, but talking to convicted felons on a daily basis, I would bet heavily that fear of death or long term incarceration is rarely a deterrant for those prone to commit criminal acts. I deal with heat of passion type crimes,which are just a couple of degrees from murder. my clients really dont' think about long term consequences while choking their wife before slamming their head into a mirror, or jabbing their husband with a cordless screwdriver (a trial I will have tomorrow)