Radio station says Milosevic dead

[Serb]

Yeah. We also do not know what gay is and what crack is.
God bless Russia!

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Agathon
no-one has proved to my satisfaction that Milosevic had anything substantial to do with it. He did give Serbian nationalist speeches,

AFAIK, there's has been no evidence presented at The Hague to connect Milosevic to Srebrenica - or any other warcrime come to that. That was the prosecution's problem, and why they had to create the desperate and unprecedented construct of a 'joint criminal conspiracy'. It's one thing to create a propaganda monster on the battlefield, but something else to prove it in court. He didn't start those wars, as the transcripts will make clear to the objective historians of the future. It's lucky for the court that he died. It was their job to pronounce him guilty, and one day, history would have judged them.

Can someone please post a nationalistic quote from Milosevic? He's always accused of nationalist demagoguery, but I've yet to see an actual quote to back this up. I've read the Kosovo Polje speech that is usually described as resembling something from the Nuremburg rallies, but it's anything but a call for racial purity, and sounds more like a leftist rejection of nationalism. Something like "Serbia has never had only Serbs living in it. This is a good thing". He points to countries like the USA and Britain as positive examples of a multi-racial community. More people should read the Kosovo Polje speech - it might surprise them.

ISTR reading that before he died a book had been scheduled to come out based on the opening remarks of his defence case. Seeing as that case has not been properly heard yet in the public arena, if that book gets published any serious student of the Balkans should be interested in what he has to say.

[VetLegion]

"Joint criminal conspiracy" is not an unprecedented construct.

[Gangerolf]

Slobo's greatest crime IMO is that he didn't stop the atrocities in Bosnia. As president of Yugoslavia and the leader of the Serbs, of course he must have known about it and he could have done something. But he chose not to. Instead of trying to reduce the chaos, he thrived upon it.

[Robert]

Originally posted by Serb
Yeah. We also do not know what gay is and what crack is.
God bless Russia!

How can you know that you should be happy that you don't know if if you don't know it?

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Gangerolf
Slobo's greatest crime IMO is that he didn't stop the atrocities in Bosnia. As president of Yugoslavia and the leader of the Serbs, of course he must have known about it and he could have done something. But he chose not to. Instead of trying to reduce the chaos, he thrived upon it.

It's not clear that he had any sort of real control over the Serbian forces in Bosnia. Worse is that no-one seemed to have had any control over them except the local leaders on both sides, who were hell bent on keeping as much territory theirs as possible.

[germanos]

I think all Milosevices should come here and enjoy the lax euthanasia-laws

Go International Court, Go!

[Gangerolf]

Originally posted by Agathon


It's not clear that he had any sort of real control over the Serbian forces in Bosnia. Worse is that no-one seemed to have had any control over them except the local leaders on both sides, who were hell bent on keeping as much territory theirs as possible.

Maybe... maybe not... What do we know. But the point is: did he try to stop them?
If anyone from the outside could have any influence on the local leaders and paramilitaries it had to be him.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Gangerolf


Maybe... maybe not... What do we know. But the point is: did he try to stop them?
If anyone from the outside could have any influence on the local leaders and paramilitaries it had to be him.

If that is all he is guilty of – not trying to stop them – then it wouldn't have held up in court.

[Elok]

Did anyone else see the political cartoon where Milosevic's standing before a frowning St. Peter and saying, "I never thought I'd say this, but I miss the UN tribunals?"

I don't really know anything about the man himself, so I'm not going to comment one way or another. The bit about the local Muslims backing the Nazis in WWII is interesting; based on my experience with the long and bitter memories of Greeks (are they related to the Serbs?) with a grudge, I'd always just assumed they hated the Muslims on account of the Ottoman Empire or some such.

[Dr Strangelove]

Not giving people bullets and artillery shells is one way to stop a war. Modern weapons have a pesky habit of exhausting their supplies in remarkably short spans of time. Someone has to make more and then deliver it to the troops. The funny thing is that the Bosnian muslims had a terrible time maintaining ammunition supplies but the Bosnian Serbs didn't. It sorta implies that the Serbians had help, like perhaps from Yugoslavia. IIRC there was a period of time during which no one was supposed to be supplying the Bosnian theater with ammunition. This seems to have been effective towards the muslims but not the Serbs. Someone has to give orders to release precious war materials to a third force, someone high in the government.

[germanos]

Originally posted by Elok
The bit about the local Muslims backing the Nazis in WWII is interesting

It's the first time I hear this, and I think it's false. It certainly would be unlikely. Muslims are not very close to being Ariers. If anybody could provide some backup for this, I would be very happy.

Croatia was a fascist pawn and AFAIK the red/white checkered emblem that you see on todays flag was used in WW2 as well.

[VetLegion]

Croatian coat of arms that is used on the national flag goes back to medieval times, not WWII.

During WWII, some muslims were indeed drafted into German or quisling units, and some volunteered.

[VetLegion]

Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
Not giving people bullets and artillery shells is one way to stop a war.

Territory of Bosnian Serbs (yellow on this post Dayton peace accords map) is completely surrounded by Croatia and part of Bosnia held by muslims and Croats, so during the whole conflict it could only be supplied through Serbia:



However, I think it was mostly fuel, food, medicines, money and things like that that were supplied - Bosnia was intended to be the last refuge in case Yugoslavia is invaded, so it was well stocked with ordnance, most of which ended in Serbian hands.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by germanos


It's the first time I hear this, and I think it's false. It certainly would be unlikely. Muslims are not very close to being Ariers. If anybody could provide some backup for this, I would be very happy.

"Himmler convinced himself that Balkan Muslims were neither Slavs nor Turks, but were really Aryans who had adopted Islam." (Source: "SS: Hell on the Western Front. The Waffen SS in Europe 1940-1945", 2003. p.70)

Try this on the Handzar:

The Crescent and the Swastika

http://13sshandzar.tripod.com/id12.html

Then for more look up "Haj Amin el-Husseini". This guy, aka The Mufti of Jerusalem, was a founding father of the 'Palestinian' movement and an uncle of Yasser Arafat, whose Fatah organisation was an ideological descendent of the Mufti. The Mufti set up the Bosnian Muslim SS Division "Handzar", and imported Nazi anti-semitism into the Arab world.

Prior to WW2, Arabic attidutes to Jews were based on the "dhimmi" system, where Jews were seen as 'protected people' - allowed to follow their religion, but entirely subordinate to muslims. The idea of a powerful 'Jewish Conspiracy' was anathama to such a perspective. Today though, the Arab world sees Jews through the same 'World Conspiracy' lens as the Nazis, and, tragically, millions of European leftists. The Mufti is still a hero to the Palestinians, whose dark Nazi past is ignored by their western cheerleaders, usually the same cheerleaders who uncritically champion the Bosnian Muslim cause.

For more on this see National Socialism and Anti-Semitism in the Arab World