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  • Teh reagan is not happy

    At Conservative Forum on Bush, Everybody's a Critic

    By Dana Milbank
    Wednesday, March 8, 2006; A02

    If the ancient political wisdom is correct that a charge unanswered is a charge agreed to, the Bush White House pleaded guilty yesterday at the Cato Institute to some extraordinary allegations.

    "We did ask a few members of the Bush economic team to come," explained David Boaz, the think tank's executive vice president, as he moderated a discussion between two prominent conservatives about President Bush. "We didn't get that."

    Now why would the administration pass up such an invitation?

    Well, it could have been because of the first speaker, former Reagan aide Bruce Bartlett. Author of the new book "Impostor: How George W. Bush Bankrupted America and Betrayed the Reagan Legacy," Bartlett called the administration "unconscionable," "irresponsible," "vindictive" and "inept."

    It might also have had something to do with speaker No. 2, conservative blogger Andrew Sullivan. Author of the forthcoming "The Conservative Soul: How We Lost It; How to Get It Back," Sullivan called Bush "reckless" and "a socialist," and accused him of betraying "almost every principle conservatism has ever stood for."

    Nor was moderator Boaz a voice of moderation. He blamed Bush for "a 48 percent increase in spending in just six years," a "federalization of public schools" and "the biggest entitlement since LBJ."

    True, the small-government libertarians represented by Cato have always been the odd men out of the Bush coalition. But the standing-room-only forum yesterday, where just a single questioner offered even a tepid defense of the president, underscored some deep disillusionment among conservatives over Bush's big-spending answer to Medicare and Hurricane Katrina, his vast claims of executive power, and his handling of postwar Iraq.

    Bartlett, who lost his job at the free-market National Center for Policy Analysis because of his book, said that if conservatives were honest, more would join his complaint. "They're reticent to address the issues that I've raised for fear that they might have to agree with them," he told the group. "And a lot of Washington think tanks and groups of that sort, they know that this White House is very vindictive."

    Waiting for the talk to start, some in the audience expressed their ambivalence.

    "It's gonna hit the [bestseller] lists, I'm sure," said Cato's legal expert, Roger Pilon.

    "Typical Bruce," replied John Taylor of the Virginia Institute for Public Policy.

    Admitted Pilon: "He's got a lot of material to work with."

    Bartlett certainly thought so. He began by predicting a big tax increase "to finance the inevitable growth of government that is in the pipeline that President Bush is largely responsible for." He also said many fellow conservatives don't know about the "quite dreadful" traits of the administration, such as the absence of "anybody who does any serious analysis" on policy issues.

    Boaz assured the audience that he told the White House that "if there's a rebuttal to what Bruce has said, please come and provide it."

    Instead, Sullivan was on hand to second the critique. "This is a big-government agenda," he said. "It is fueled by a new ideology, the ideology of Christian fundamentalism." The bearded pundit offered his own indictment of Bush: "complete contempt" for democratic processes, torture of detainees, ignoring habeas corpus and a "vast expansion of the federal government." The notion, he said, that the "Thatcher-Reagan legacy that many of us grew up to love and support would end this way is an astonishing paradox and a great tragedy."

    The question period gave the two a chance to come up with new insults.

    "If Bush were running today against Bill Clinton, I'd vote for Clinton," Bartlett served.

    "You have to understand the people in this administration have no principles," Sullivan volleyed. "Any principles that get in the way of the electoral map have to be dispensed with."

    Boaz renewed his plea. "Any Bush economists hiding in the audience?"

    There was, in fact, one Bush Treasury official on the attendance roster, but he did not surface. The only man who came close to defending Bush, environmental conservative Fred Singer, said he was "willing to overlook" the faults because of the president's Supreme Court nominations. Even Richard Walker, representing the think tank that fired Bartlett, declined to argue. "I agree with most of it," he said later.

    Unchallenged, the Bartlett-Sullivan tag team continued. "The entire intellectual game has been given away by the Republican president," said Sullivan. "He's a socialist in so many respects, a Christian socialist."

    Bartlett argued that Richard Nixon "is the model for everything Bush is doing."

    Sullivan said Karl Rove's political strategy is "pathetic."

    Bartlett said that "the administration lies about budget numbers."

    "He is not a responsible human being; he is a phenomenally reckless human being," Sullivan proclaimed. "There is a level of recklessness involved that is beyond any ideology."

    "Gosh," Boaz interjected. "I wish we had a senior White House aide up here."
    © 2006 The Washington Post Company
    Not to be outdone by the knee jerkers on 'poly
    "Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson

    “In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy Carter

  • #2
    bush is a socialist?

    To us, it is the BEAST.

    Comment


    • #3
      Teh Reagan

      "If Bush were running today against Bill Clinton, I'd vote for Clinton," Bartlett served.


      “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
      - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

      Comment


      • #4
        The notion, he said, that the "Thatcher-Reagan legacy that many of us grew up to love and support would end this way is an astonishing paradox and a great tragedy."
        I dunno... Bush is pretty much continuing that legacy. Ballooning deficits... debt... shifting the tax burden from the rich to the poor... creating more problems for the future generations, etc.

        And WRT Iraq, Bush is continuing the Reagan legacy by making a bad situation worse. Although, instead of doing anything he can to defeat the "evil Soviets"... Bush is doing anything he can to defeat the "evil terrorists".

        And in the process, creating more problems... making things worse... and passing those problems on.

        It's like... there's always got to be an enemy.

        oh well, nobody learns from history, so we repeat it

        The game stays the same, the names just change.
        To us, it is the BEAST.

        Comment


        • #5
          reagan
          "Everything for the State, nothing against the State, nothing outside the State" - Benito Mussolini

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Sava
            I dunno... Bush is pretty much continuing that legacy.
            I agree. George W is much more the son of teh Reagan than he is of George H.W.

            The only difference between George W and Reagan that I can see is, although Reagan railed against big government, the size of government under him grew, while George W. has become Mr. Big Government.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Sava


              shifting the tax burden from the rich to the poor.
              Yep just like
              this


              You'll note table 6 wherein taxes were shifted as follows from 1980 to 2003:

              Top 1% Top 5% Top 10% Top 25% Top 50% Bottom 50%

              1980 19.05% 36.85% 49.28% 73.02% 92.95% 7.05%
              2003 34.27% 54.36% 65.84% 83.88% 96.54% 3.46%


              Damn that inequitable shifting of tax burden.
              "Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson

              “In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy Carter

              Comment


              • #8
                that's income

                not rates

                you always like using right wing sites that distort the numbers?

                maybe they collected a greater % of income because they were making more money

                for instance

                a rich guy is getting taxed at 50%
                poor guy at 25%

                rich guy makes 100,000,000
                poor guy makes 10,000

                govt makes 50,000,000 from rich guy
                2,500 from poor guy

                the next year they shift the rates to 40% and 30%

                rich guy makes 100,000,000,000
                poor guy makes 1,000

                govt makes 40,000,000,000 and 300

                the percentage of income the govt makes from the rich guy is higher even though the rates were shifted to put the burden more on the poor guy

                MATH IS FUN
                To us, it is the BEAST.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Sorry, Ogie's numbers don't make sense.

                  When Reagan took office, the income tax rates for the top tier was something like 39%, plus there were capital gains taxes and estate taxes.

                  IIRC, the top tier now pays 22%, most capital gains taxes have been declared to be "double taxation" and abolished, and the estate tax has been declared to be the "death tax" is moribund.

                  So how have taxes on the top 1% nearly doubled?? Smells like creative bookkeeping to me.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    thats the share paid, not the tax rate.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Sava
                      that's income

                      not rates
                      It is tied to income but it actual $ collected in taxes by income level.

                      you always like using right wing sites that distort the numbers?
                      Funny it was quoted from The Tax Foundation who I wasn't aware was a right wing site.

                      If you say otherwise or know otherwsie let me know.

                      About the Tax Foundation

                      OUR MISSION

                      The mission of the Tax Foundation is to educate taxpayers about sound tax policy and the size of the tax burden borne by Americans at all levels of government. From its founding in 1937, the Tax Foundation has been grounded in the belief that the dissemination of basic information about government finance is the foundation of sound policy in a free society.

                      WHAT DO WE STAND FOR?

                      As a nonpartisan educational organization, the Tax Foundation has earned a reputation for independence and credibility.

                      HOW SHOULD JOURNALISTS DESCRIBE THE TAX FOUNDATION?

                      The Tax Foundation is a non-partisan tax research organization based in Washington, D.C.

                      maybe they collected a greater % of income because they were making more money
                      Duhhh and that is wrong on what level because? Why do you envy those who have made their success when in fact they actually are providing the lion share of all taxes garnered for the governement at a rate that actually increases over the years (as opposed to the ill infomred comment you made wherein you claim the poorest folk are shouldering ever larger portions of the overall tax burden)

                      Would the county you or I be better served if these people were not wealthy so that the inevitable growth of governement gets funded even moreso by shlubs like you and me.

                      The point being is of course we want people to succeed at greater rates and numbers if only to ensure that the taxes paid to the overly huge governement are paid at the higher income tax rates thus lessening our burden as is clearly seen in the tax collection numbers listed above.
                      "Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson

                      “In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy Carter

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Zkribbler
                        Sorry, Ogie's numbers don't make sense.

                        When Reagan took office, the income tax rates for the top tier was something like 39%, plus there were capital gains taxes and estate taxes.

                        IIRC, the top tier now pays 22%, most capital gains taxes have been declared to be "double taxation" and abolished, and the estate tax has been declared to be the "death tax" is moribund.

                        So how have taxes on the top 1% nearly doubled?? Smells like creative bookkeeping to me.
                        Take it up with the IRS as that is purportedly where the Tax Foundation Numbers came from.
                        "Just puttin on the foil" - Jeff Hanson

                        “In a democracy, I realize you don’t need to talk to the top leader to know how the country feels. When I go to a dictatorship, I only have to talk to one person and that’s the dictator, because he speaks for all the people.” - Jimmy Carter

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          the numbers make sense - that is what percent of federal tax money comes from certain income levels.
                          "Everything for the State, nothing against the State, nothing outside the State" - Benito Mussolini

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            top marginal tax rates

                            1980-2003



                            year, rate, taxable income over (amount)
                            Code:
                            1980	70		215,400
                            1981	69.125		215,400
                            1982	50	 	85,600
                            1983	50	 	109,400
                            1984	50	 	162,400
                            1985	50	 	169,020
                            1986	50	 	175,250
                            1987	38.5	 	90,000
                            1988	28 <8>	 	29,750 <8>
                            1989	28 <8>	 	30,950 <8>
                            1990	28 <8>	 	32,450 <8>
                            1991	31	 	82,150
                            1992	31	 	86,500
                            1993	39.6	 	89,150
                            1994	39.6	 	250,000
                            1995	39.6	 	256,500
                            1996	39.6	 	263,750
                            1997	39.6	 	271,050
                            1998	39.6	 	278,450
                            1999	39.6	 	283,150
                            2000	39.6	 	288,350
                            2001	39.1	 	297,350
                            2002	38.6	 	307,050
                            2003	35	 	311,950
                            To us, it is the BEAST.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              dang...my brain is really getting rusty.

                              Comment

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