How legal Is This

[Ming]

Originally posted by Terra Nullius
Oh, and Ming
Just to be clear, I'm not attacking you for having an opinion. I am attacking you for seemingly presenting your opinions as fact, or as the only reasonable opinion to have.

I present my opinion as opinions... but the facts in the matter is simple... the owners do have the right here in many states to fire at will.

I've seen my company get screwed because somebody we invested time, training, and money in, just got up and left. So you are saying that's ok, but that businesses can't fire people? It's a two way street. The only way we can keep somebody for sure is with a contract... and that's the only way they can guarantee employment. Now that's fair. If there is no contract, the employee can screw the company at any time by leaving, and the company can can get rid of the employee... sounds fair to me.

And then there is the talk of the probation period being the cure all... HAHAHAHHAHAHAAHA

Many employees are on their best behaviour during their probation periods, and then some turn into real jerks after it's over. People change... Companies change... people have the right to leave whenever they want and screw the company... and companies should have the same right to decide if they don't want somebody working for them.

[Zkribbler]

Originally posted by Ming

Many employees are on their best behaviour during their probation periods, and then some turn into real jerks after it's over.

Change how??

If they begin screwing arounds at the water cooler, coming in late, leaving early, calling in sick and then going to strip shows...you have cause to fire them.

If they become obnoxious jerks to be point were work is negatively affected, then you have cause to fire them.

[Mrs. Tuberski]

Funny ming has these opinions on the right to work and fire states, last i checked the state he lives in isnt one of them.
Having lived here in one all my lifeits a bit closer to home when u can be fired for anything. I have said of course if it is not ur fault the unemployment will kick in but that only goes a ways. As for ur standpoint ming I hear you say its the companies perogative of who to keep on staff, thats fine so i ask you what is the employees incentive for somebody to wake up everyday and go to work make this company money bust his ass if he can be fired cause the boss hated his tie?

[Mrs. Tuberski]

All in all for my situation i ask you how can i control what others do around me?? I cant can I and for a company to threaten to fire me for what tom dick and harry does is ridiculous. If you ask me and i will say this what out a doubt is one companies way of dictating to you what you do in ur private time. Which if you want to know the truth for all u hard core gvt bashers is the same as the govt dictating to u which in case you all cry foul and illegeal where are my rights??

[Ming]

I did a great job for a company for over 20 years. Never got a poor review... won awards... helped get new business... never a bad word... and then management changed, and they had no room for me, because I wasn't one of their people. I was fired for no reason... even though I live in Illiniois. Nothing I could do about it... I didn't think they owned me a job for life. I'm just practicing what I preach

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Zkribbler
Change how??

If they begin screwing arounds at the water cooler, coming in late, leaving early, calling in sick and then going to strip shows...you have cause to fire them.

If they become obnoxious jerks to be point were work is negatively affected, then you have cause to fire them.

What if they become obnoxious jerks but the work isn't affected? They just thrive on pissing the boss off, but do all their work?

[Mrs. Tuberski]

Ming i understand u practice what ya preach and for the most part so do I I have choices cause i am under contract. but some folks dont. I alos understand that you have a right to join a union that could protect ur job, i dont have that choice. I have a new scenario
say you work for thi company, they have a non smoking policy, you take out a client to lunch the dude lights up a cigar, u then go back to work smelling of that smoke is it ok to be fired for that? After all ur boss told ya to take this said client to lunch.

[Ming]

Originally posted by Mrs. Tuberski
I have a new scenario
say you work for thi company, they have a non smoking policy, you take out a client to lunch the dude lights up a cigar, u then go back to work smelling of that smoke is it ok to be fired for that? After all ur boss told ya to take this said client to lunch.

OK is an interesting word. They might have the right, but I can't think of a company that would. And if I did work for one that would do just that... I would quit first

Contracts and Unions (because they have contracts) are one thing... but if you have the right to screw the company by leaving on a whim, they should have the same right. It's that simple. All the anti owners aren't addressing the issue of how much an employee can screw the company by leaving... they are only looking at it from their perspective.

[Mrs. Tuberski]

I seem to think its easier to hire someone then it is to actually find a job. the company is never in short supply of folks qualified to do the job of a person that as u say up and left. however the person looking for a job always seems in short supply of potential businesses wanting to hire them

[Ming]

While it probably is easier to hire somebody... a new hire takes a long time to replace somebody who has been with the company. You lose so much having to replace an experienced employee... When a good employee leaves us to go somewhere else, it really screws us over. One of my superstars just left, and it screws us big time. I wished him the best because he's a great guy and I want him to do good in his life, but it sets my department back alot.

[Provost Harrison]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

What if they become obnoxious jerks but the work isn't affected? They just thrive on pissing the boss off, but do all their work?

Then that's a personal issue, simple as that...I think it is about time that employers stop being treated with some kind of huge respect when it just isn't due in that proportion.

I think some of the posts have summed up my opinion perfectly. I don't live in a state where people are hired at will, and employers are under an obligation to provide employment unless there is due cause for termination of employment. And believe me, this country is crap compared to our European counterparts. But as I have said, if someone underperforms consistently, that comes up as grounds for dismissal...there is a warning system in place. But I have been the victim of dismissal at will during a trial period when I did absolutely nothing wrong other than being too proactive for their liking. So I think it is about time some of you looked at the other side of the argument and see how the real world works. You say you are more experienced, but in reality, you are in a cushy middle class position. For someone struggling to find a job that makes a decent living, it just doesn't work like that...

[Provost Harrison]

Originally posted by Ming
While it probably is easier to hire somebody... a new hire takes a long time to replace somebody who has been with the company. You lose so much having to replace an experienced employee... When a good employee leaves us to go somewhere else, it really screws us over. One of my superstars just left, and it screws us big time. I wished him the best because he's a great guy and I want him to do good in his life, but it sets my department back alot.

It's a fact of life. I know that for the vast majority of people if the company plays fair, pays them at a market level and doesn't try and shaft them, employees are generally pretty loyal, and the turnover will be pretty low. This, in my observation, is rarely the case...it takes two to tango.

[Provost Harrison]

There has been a high turnover of staff where I work due to people being denied opportunities they have earned, overworking, lack of communication and openness, short term contracts with no prospect of permanent employment. The management seem to understand this but don't act. This is the reality of being a foot soldier in the corporate world...never lose sight of that fact.

[Ming]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
It's a fact of life. I know that for the vast majority of people if the company plays fair, pays them at a market level and doesn't try and shaft them, employees are generally pretty loyal, and the turnover will be pretty low. This, in my observation, is rarely the case...it takes two to tango.

Employees are generally pretty loyal... what are you smoking.

We can be paying somebody above fair market value, and then invest tons of money in presentation classes... management classes... writing classes... all things the employee wants... and then they bail because somebody offers them way over market value.

It's hardest with the new people who you think get shafted oh so often. They are the hardest to keep. They come and get an entry level job (get their foot in the door) and then bail for tons more money after WE have trained them. So I don't want to hear to the moans of those starting off... they are the least loyal of all.

[Whaleboy]

Employee market is fickle, just like the market your sales side has to deal with. Why shouldn't your workers choose a job with more money? Why did you invest in them in the first place? Was it because you're a nice guy, or because you wanted to increase their skills and tie them to the company for the duration of training?