Shiites told: Leave home or be killed

[Arrian]

Isn't it, though? Clearly invasion was the right move, eh Sloww?

-Arrian

[Wezil]

No problem. Iraq is just turning another corner.

[DRoseDARs]

Originally posted by Last Conformist

You tell Ankara why that's a good idea.

They'll no longer have their Kurdish problem. Incidentally, neither will Iraq or Iran.

[MrFun]

Sloww, can you understand the concept of how contemporary actions carried out today (such as by the Bush administration) compounds, or magnifies the problems that have had a much longer history??

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Arrian
Bush has nothing to do with the fact that Sunnis and Shiites hate each other. That's clearly so. So evident, as a matter of fact, that nobody would suggest otherwise, Sloww.

-Arrian

Of course some shiites and sunnis dont hate each other. Some are married to each other. Some have helped each other even in the events of the last week.

Though some of course are trying to pull the country apart. Its yet to be seen if they will be successful.

And the fact that we didnt establish order quickly in summer of 2003 has a great deal to do with why it is now the way it is now.

[Sandman]

Edit - in reply to DRoseDARs

Will the Kurds in Turkey and Iran suddenly cease to exist if a small Kurdistan breaks off from Iraq?

[Lawrence of Arabia]

there is a delegation of Irakis, including 2 parliamentaries, who are in Berne right now, learning how federalism, direct democracy, and minority rights work in switzerland (and most importantly, how the Jura question was resolved in the 1970s). they were previously in canada, studying their system.

[Last Conformist]

Originally posted by DRoseDARs


They'll no longer have their Kurdish problem. Incidentally, neither will Iraq or Iran.

Are you advocating ethnic cleansing?

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Originally posted by Wezil
No problem. Iraq is just turning another corner.

[Richelieu]

Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
there is a delegation of Irakis, including 2 parliamentaries, who are in Berne right now, learning how federalism, direct democracy, and minority rights work in switzerland (and most importantly, how the Jura question was resolved in the 1970s). they were previously in canada, studying their system.

The Canadian solution: if you have one province that pretends to be different, don't put it in the Constitution. If they don't sign the Constitution: no big deal. They still have to abide by it.

[Tattila the Hun]

Originally posted by Arrian
What Guyemer said.



Yeah, but droopier too.

-Arrian

I feel like the thread suddenly fell down a hyperspace chasm or some other anomaly...

[Arrian]

Bah. Just a minor tangent. If I'd wanted to threadjack, there woulda been pictures.

-Arrian

p.s. In case you missed it - the bit I quoted is from Last Conformist's sig.

[Ramo]

I just read an interesting piece by Noah Feldman:

NOAH FELDMAN Professor of law at New York University and an adjunct senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations

In looking at the brewing civil war between the two groups in Iraq, it's easy to assume that the cause is ancient hatred. Nothing could be further from the truth. For the overwhelming majority of Iraqi history, Sunnis and Shi'ites have lived peacefully side by side, and numerous Iraqis are the children of mixed marriages. Instead we are witnessing in Iraq what occurs when government collapses and there is no state around capable of guaranteeing personal security.

What do you do when your family is in peril and you cannot turn to the government for protection? The answer is that you will take security wherever you can get it. You need to find some group that will be capable of keeping you safe, and that group had better be one that can count on your loyalty just as you can count on its protection. If you are a member of my ethnic, racial or religious group, then we share at least some basic bond, which may be enough to ensure our loyalty to one another. I need some assurance that you will have my back, and identity is better than nothing.

Sunnis and Shi'ites may find themselves joining militias or supporting denomination-based political parties even if they are not particularly pious and would much prefer not to. Something similar happened in the former Yugoslavia when its government collapsed with the fall of communism and nothing replaced it. Ethnic activists--call them identity entrepreneurs--will always form the core of the new militia. These radicals will emphasize symbols, like al-Askari mosque that was blown up last week in Iraq, and hope that followers will react by strengthening their commitments to the group itself.

Is it possible to break the cycle of violence that gets under way when identity groups move toward civil war? One answer is for an outside force to impose a solution. The killing did not stop in Bosnia or Kosovo until Western powers showed they were willing to bomb. But this approach is not viable in Iraq, where U.S. bombs came first and civil strife has followed. Instead the only way out of the violence is for Iraqis to realize that they have more to gain by negotiating a settlement between their groups than they do by allowing a full-blown brothers' war to break out.

I'd add that our systemic undermining of organized labor in Iraq was instrumental in fueling these sectarian tensions. And that helping to prop up crazy folks like SCIRI (i.e. by importing the Badr Brigade) didn't help the situation either.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1167736-2,00.html

[SlowwHand]

Originally posted by MrFun
Sloww, can you understand the concept of how contemporary actions carried out today (such as by the Bush administration) compounds, or magnifies the problems that have had a much longer history??

Can you understand the concept of time, and how you, me, nor Bush is a pimple on the ass?

[Dinner]

Originally posted by DRoseDARs

They'll no longer have their Kurdish problem. Incidentally, neither will Iraq or Iran.

Start redrawing borders and we'll likely see a whole host of ethnic minorities clammering for they're own state.