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I despise both. It was a crapshoot, but the Buick had leather seats. 
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"The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. " -
The 2005 Allure looks like the late 90s Taurus. How do you spell "uninspired"?
It also has a single overhead valve 3.8L 200hp(!) engine. Typical low-tech, big-ass, fuel-inefficient American engine..."The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "Comment
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I find that a Pontiac G6 is pretty fun to drive for a rental period. Don't know about the reliability.“I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
- John 13:34-35 (NRSV)Comment
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I previously had a Peugeot and I now have a Nissan and the reliability of the latter has been fantastic - the most I've had to change is a headlight bulb in three years
Speaking of Erith:
"It's not twinned with anywhere, but it does have a suicide pact with Dagenham" - Linda SmithComment
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Toyota & Honda > any American car. Yep. Once you're used to that sort of quality & reliability, the American cars really aren't an option.Originally posted by Oerdin
I really don't understand why people keep claiming American cars break down when they always do better then European, Korean, Malaysian, or any other non-Japanese cars on the market in terms of quality. Even in Japan it is only really Honda, Toyota, Nissan, and Subaru who make above average quality ars while the rest (Mitsubishi, Mazda, Isuzu, Suzuiki, etc) all make average or below average quality cars. If you want the really high quality cars then Toyota and Honda virtually stand alone among the Japanese makes while the others are very close to American quality rankings while the non-Japanese or American cars tend to be low quality crap.
-Arriangrog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!
The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.Comment
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As I said before Toyota and honda are the two which have far and away the best quality in the world. The other Japanese tend to be around average for Euro & American cars or below average. Most of Japan's reputation for quality comes from just two brands who earned it.
That said brands go up and down in quality regularly. GM is ranked #3 in the world behind Honda (Toyota is ranked #1) in quality. VW reportedly hs been sliding down the rankings for years now. Their cars aren't getting worse but the others are getting way better while VW is more or less standing still.Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.Comment
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I have serious difficulty believing this. Is this that stupid "initial quality" rating one of the companies likes to bray about? Who did this ranking? I typically trust Consumer Reports.GM is ranked #3 in the world behind Honda (Toyota is ranked #1) in quality.
The other thing is that the GM/Ford offerings in the vehicle classes I care about (compact and mid-size sedans, maybe wagons or small SUVs) tend to suck. Not just reliability-wise. Fuel efficiency matters too.
-Arriangrog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!
The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.Comment
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Oerdin: I don't understand why you believe the relative quality of small 3rd tier Japanese companies versus GM and Ford is significant.
Toyota is going to be the biggest car company in the world this year, while having the reputation of being #1 in quality.Last edited by DanS; February 22, 2006, 11:30.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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It is ranked both in the intial quality rankings which judge the number of problems in the first six months and also the three year study and the dependability study which is supposed to judge things out to five years.Originally posted by Arrian
I have serious difficulty believing this. Is this that stupid "initial quality" rating one of the companies likes to bray about? Who did this ranking? I typically trust Consumer Reports.
The other thing is that the GM/Ford offerings in the vehicle classes I care about (compact and mid-size sedans, maybe wagons or small SUVs) tend to suck. Not just reliability-wise. Fuel efficiency matters too.
-ArrianTry http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.Comment
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There are 11 Japanese car makers and two of them are about 15% higher ranked then any other company out there. The other nine (companies like Nissan, Mazda, & Subaru) produce an aweful lot of cars together they produce far more then Toyota and Honda so when comparing Japanese cars verse other nation's cars it is absolutely significant.Originally posted by DanS
Oerdin: I don't understand why you believe the relative quality of small 3rd tier Japanese companies versus GM and Ford is significant.
Toyota is going to be the biggest car company in the world this year, while having the reputation of being #1 in quality.
Really people should be talking about Honda & Toyota and not Japan.Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.Comment
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Ok, so it looks down the road a bit.It is ranked both in the intial quality rankings which judge the number of problems in the first six months and also the three year study and the dependability study which is supposed to judge things out to five years.grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!
The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.Comment
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Sounds like BS to me, dude. Toyota plans to sell about 9 million vehicles in '06. Honda sold some 3.2 million vehicles in fiscal year '05.The other nine (companies like Nissan, Mazda, & Subaru) produce an aweful lot of cars together they produce far more then Toyota and Honda
Mazda sells some 1.3 million vehicles. Nissan 1.8 million vehicles. Subaru only 600,000.Last edited by DanS; February 22, 2006, 12:37.I came upon a barroom full of bad Salon pictures in which men with hats on the backs of their heads were wolfing food from a counter. It was the institution of the "free lunch" I had struck. You paid for a drink and got as much as you wanted to eat. For something less than a rupee a day a man can feed himself sumptuously in San Francisco, even though he be a bankrupt. Remember this if ever you are stranded in these parts. ~ Rudyard Kipling, 1891Comment
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Wow, I didn't realize Toyota was that far ahead of Honda (in size). Both make good cars, though
-Arriangrog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!
The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.Comment
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World wide? Can you total up all 11 Japanese companies and compare? You're saying Toyota is 50% of the Japanese industry by itself?Originally posted by DanS
Sounds like BS to me, dude. Toyota plans to sell about 9 million vehicles in '06. Honda sold some 3.2 million vehicles in fiscal year '05.
Mazda sells some 1.3 million vehicles. Nissan 1.8 million vehicles. Subaru only 600,000.Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.Comment
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Not hard to extrapolate. You claimed the other Japanese manufacturers outsold Toyota and Honda. If Toyota and Honda account for roughly 12 million units, and Nissan, Mazda and Subaru account for 3.7 million, the other six would have to average almost 1.4 million units each. Do you think that's realistic?Originally posted by Oerdin
World wide? Can you total up all 11 Japanese companies and compare? You're saying Toyota is 50% of the Japanese industry by itself?"The French caused the war [Persian Gulf war, 1991]" - Ned
"you people who bash Bush have no appreciation for one of the great presidents in our history." - Ned
"I wish I had gay sex in the boy scouts" - DissidentComment
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