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Objectivism: Do you give a rat's arse?

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  • Objectivism: Do you give a rat's arse?

    I used to be confused by Ayn Rand's philosophy, until somebody broke it down for me ("a highbrow justification for acting like a selfish creep"). Now I just consider it stupid and repellent, like the worst traits of cold-blooded conservatism and militant atheism combined into one big heap of unlovable crap. I don't think we need a bash-Ayn-Rand thread or anything; if that happens here, I'll consider it gravy, but let's not try, because there's probably somebody on this board who's a fan of hers.

    My question is, does anyone actually take it seriously? I mean, the various feuding Objectivist enclaves have got an "Atlas Shrugged" scholarship, they're wooing philosophy professors and other intellectuals who only get openly laughed at by Asher (and who in turn like to laugh at the Objectivists themselves); they're evidently fighting to join the closest thing there is to a mainstream among the lunatic fringe. What's your impression of their success rate? Do you hear anything about them? I'm especially interested in what our sizable philosopher-geek contingent thinks.

    This is a pretty open-ended question here, which is why I didn't bother with a poll. Possible answers include: "I hear all about them, but then I'm in college," "I am/used to be one myself," "Never heard of 'em," and "They're getting a following in France, just like that Le Pen guy." Not to say that the last one is true, but hey, I don't know. I'm just asking 'Poly as the biggest cross-section of global society available to me.

    For the record, I started wondering this in my Shakespeare Now class; we're reading Marxist, Deconstructionist, "Queer Theory," Postcolonial, and other literary schools' approach to Shakespeare. Naturally, I wondered why some nutty, dysfunctional worldviews get attention in academic circles and others, such as Objectivism, don't.

    I know it's not the relative plausibility of the ideology in question. I'm wading through an article right now, published in a respected New Historicist journal a few years back, that appears to be saying, "Every time anybody in Shakespeare mentions secrets, they're really talking about the vagina. Or if they mention anything else, for that matter. They do not understand the female crotch, ergo they fear it and attempt to repress it in veiled language. You know I'm right because I quote Erasmus saying something kinda like that and we know everybody back then thought the same." So, there's no apparent reason why there shouldn't be a thriving community for "Objectivist literary criticism." They've already got the needlessly complicated language down pat.
    1011 1100
    Pyrebound--a free online serial fantasy novel

  • #2
    A small minority of a small minority of respectable philosophers care about Rand. None of these people do the majority of their work on Rand. When I was at the APA Conference a year or so ago, they had some sort of meeting (all the weirdo groups have small meetings), but as far as I could see, nobody cared.

    Rand's problem is that she's writing as if hardly anyone else had ever written philosophy before. That's OK if you are Aristotle, but she just steamrolls past 2000 years of thought on the matter without acknowledging the tired old objections.

    Oddly enough, I think Asher would like Rand. Her ideas and the sort of people who like her suit him.
    Only feebs vote.

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    • #3
      I haven't read the rules lately, Ag, but I imagine comparing somebody to Ayn Rand counts as trolling. FYI.
      1011 1100
      Pyrebound--a free online serial fantasy novel

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      • #4
        Invest in the John Galt gold fund, located in Bermuda, right now!

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        • #5
          Oh dear, now I had to go and look up "John Galt" on google. Got a wikipedia summary of "Atlas Shrugged." Corporate fatcats went on strike, now the world is ruined!
          1011 1100
          Pyrebound--a free online serial fantasy novel

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Elok
            Oh dear, now I had to go and look up "John Galt" on google. Got a wikipedia summary of "Atlas Shrugged." Corporate fatcats went on strike, now the world is ruined!
            Yeah... he locks himself away and grows tomatoes or something... what a loser... real men in his situation devote their lives to drinking and whoring.
            Only feebs vote.

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            • #7
              The deal with Atlas Shrugged is that it only works in a closed organization. Applying the meaning of the book to the real world is fruitless. In a small scale setting the characters can be effectively applied to real people, thereby illuminating, starkly stereotypical but all to often correct, truths.

              Problem is that in all her books the endings usually involve the hero entering some sort of nirvana, whether it be a valley full of geniuses or a secluded electrified compound, making them effectively cut off from the reality and stupid people of the world. At the end of Atlas Shrugged Rand has her heroes start planning for their re-entry into the world, but this re-entry is planned based on the hope that all those people who followed the "looters" will suddenly see the error of their ways and obey the "most able", that is the heroes. This continual ending is forever flawed as the end all to a philosophy as it offers no realistic way for the heroes to cope with actual reality beyond Rand's stories.

              Read her stuff as a kick. It has some interesting individualism qualities to it and can give the reader a good sense of self, but I'd stay away from Objectivism as it just some halcyon dream of a bunch of self possessed hard asses. Rand and her followers were never as perfect as the heroes in her stories.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Agathon
                Yeah... he locks himself away and grows tomatoes or something... what a loser... real men in his situation devote their lives to drinking and whoring.
                Actually he builds a limitless energy reactor in his spare time while recruiting the best minds of society. But that's before he bangs the main character in the book a bunch of times. Rand's real big on passionate love and sex in her books. She figures you might as well go big if go at all.

                I also like her comments on cigarettes.

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                • #9
                  Harry.

                  I read a couple of Rand's books in high school. Kinda fun, but you can't take 'em too seriously.

                  -Arrian
                  grog want tank...Grog Want Tank... GROG WANT TANK!

                  The trick isn't to break some eggs to make an omelette, it's convincing the eggs to break themselves in order to aspire to omelettehood.

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                  • #10
                    it is crap, and deaply flawed

                    Jon Miller
                    Jon Miller-
                    I AM.CANADIAN
                    GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Arrian
                      Harry.

                      I read a couple of Rand's books in high school. Kinda fun, but you can't take 'em too seriously.

                      -Arrian
                      My English teacher actually called Rand's works dangerous. Which of course made me want to read them more.

                      Odd thing is you would have thought that he might have tried to sway me away from the books, but then again I had just attacked his idol Henry David Thoreau as being a hypocrite to his own ideology. So maybe he gave up, I dunno.

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                      • #12
                        I really like reading this sort of texts. You read, you sympathize, you nod in approval, and then the author goes on to make a couple of insane leaps, and/or doesn't consider other factors than the one they wrote about it, and you're, like, "WTF?!"

                        In fact, I have a particular part in mind:
                        urgh.NSFW

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                        • #13
                          a) The ideology is crap

                          b) The writing is terrible
                          12-17-10 Mohamed Bouazizi NEVER FORGET
                          Stadtluft Macht Frei
                          Killing it is the new killing it
                          Ultima Ratio Regum

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                          • #14
                            I had to read Altas Shrugged for school. Afterwards I burnt it. Not to stamp out free speech (it was only one copy) but as a literary comment.

                            BTW: Books are really hard to burn. Fahrenheit 451 degrees, my arse.

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                            • #15
                              I helped in the burning of my classes copies of Bugg electronics.

                              Only two of us kept our copies (I was one, I helped burn one of my freinds..).

                              Jon Miller
                              (my class really hated the text book)
                              Jon Miller-
                              I AM.CANADIAN
                              GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

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