Tweet
Iowa Memorial vs SF City Board of Supervisors
Don't know if anyone has been following this, but there has been a push in the last year or so to get the Iowa a berth in San Francisco as a war memorial. Frankly, I think it's a good idea. Apperently Senator Feinstein managed to pry some money from the Feds to pay for the intial costs, whcih is double plus good. Therefore it was with some dismay I heard last summer that the SF Board of Supervisors voted against bringing the Iowa to SF
Well, I was underway this past week and while surfing through Thursday's "Early Bird" I found a Transcript of Wednesday's Hannity and Colmes (which I normally don't watch). Specifically, it was on the segment where the hosts were interviewing a SF Supervisor.
HANNITY & COLMES FOX NEWS CHANNEL
9:30 PM FEBRUARY 14, 2006
SEAN HANNITY: And welcome back for a special edition of "Hannity & Colmes." We're live from San Francisco tonight.
The USS Iowa, displacing 45,000 tons and carrying a crew of almost 7,000 -- I'm sorry, 3,000, was launched as the first battleship of its class in 1942.
Now, in the fall of 1943, the Iowa carried FDR to and from the Tehran conference with Churchill and Stalin. The ship earned nine battle stars for World War II service and served as the flagship during the surrender of the Japanese in 1945.
The Iowa was recommissioned for battle in the Korean War and once again in 1984 by President Ronald Reagan. Since 2001, the Iowa has been in mothballs.
Veterans and local politicians campaigned to bring it to San Francisco as a navel history museum and memorial. But this summer the board of supervisors voted 8-3 against that plan. Their reasons span from the military's policy towards gays to disapproval with the war in Iraq, to fears that the Iowa would cost the city too much money.
Earlier today we took a tour of the USS Iowa with some of the veterans who are still fighting to restore her to her former glory.
HANNITY: And earlier today I visited the proposed site where her supporters would like the USS Iowa to be installed as a memorial and museum, and I spoke with Merilyn Wong, who...
HANNITY: ... was president of the historic San Francisco stadium. When Barry Bonds was hitting home runs people were in that waterway there, waiting for the ball to come over, right?
WONG, WORKING TOWARDS IOWA MUSEUM: Exactly. They're waiting for that home run or that grand slam.
HANNITY: Yes. All right. This is Willie McCovey. They've got a statue for him. And of course, when he was playing Willie Mays was a big part of the team back then. We have a more pressing issue here, the USS Iowa. Tell us what you're doing and what you've been working on here.
WONG: We are talking about bringing another yet San Francisco giant to the San Francisco waterfront. And by that I mean bringing one of our nation's most historic and charismatic ships and placing her in one of the most visited city's waterfronts to serve in a new and dignified role as a museum, a memorial, even a possible emergency command center, and a platform for conflict resolution.
HANNITY: If we could just sort of pan over here, because it's just on this other side over here. Right where that barge is, is the location where the Iowa would have been docked. It would have been open and accessible. As we see it's very centrally located to a lot of people that we're visiting here. Is that it?
WONG: Yes. That's one of four potential sites that we have engineered to place this ship. And it's a wonderful locale. Think about it. Baseball, hot dogs, apple pie and the USS Iowa.
I mean, this ship was present at some of the most defining moments in American and world history. She speaks freedom. She is the stuff -- just like baseball -- of which America was made, a free nation was made.
HANNITY: Is there still a fighting chance or is this battle lost now because of the supervisors? Does this now -- does the USS Iowa go to Stockton?
WONG: Well, fortunately, the Iowa congressional delegation, teaming up with the Bay Area congressional delegation, did successfully maintain our right to compete for this ship. That is consistent with Navy policy for donation of historic vessels.
HANNITY: Right.
WONG: So insofar as Stockton, they have the right to compete just as much as we do. And still...
HANNITY: But they seem very aggressive, and the supervisors did go 8- 3 against. And they don't seem to have the plan that Stockton had put in place. Very aggressively fighting for this.
WONG: There's still a chance. The only limit to our realization of this goal is really our doubts of today. And we're moving forward with strong and active faith. (END VIDEOTAPE)
Support for WWII battleship
HANNITY: And joining us now is one of the leaders of the fight to bring the USS Iowa to San Francisco. The director of the Historic Ships Memorial of Pacific Square, Bill Stephens, is with us.
By the way, if I really wanted to be cold I could have stayed in New York, you know. I didn't expect it was going to be this bad.
BILL STEPHENS, HISTORIC SHIPS MEMORIAL: Yes. Well, it's one of our more unusual weather fronts moving in.
HANNITY: It is. But I'll tell you, what a beautiful skyline behind us here.
It's almost unimaginable when you look at the history of the Iowa, and what an important role it's played in the defense of liberty and freedom, for the excuses that people have made to prevent it from docking here in San Francisco. Give us a brief history of where we are in this battle.
STEPHENS: Well, right now we're in the process of being before the board of supervisors with a new resolution that will address their concerns. And we feel that this approach will mitigate their -- their position enough so that they can accept the project in its entirety. It's a wonderful project for the Bay Area.
HANNITY: It really is. Look, and to her credit, even Dianne Feinstein -- this isn't, you know, the typical -- or quintessential liberal versus conservative. I mean, Dianne Feinstein got the money to bring it here, has been frankly disgusted at the way that this has been treated.
Is this just thumbing the nose at the military? Is there a big, strong anti-military sentiment behind all this?
STEPHENS: Sean, the span of support for the Iowa extends all the way from Congresswoman Barbara Lee through the Democratic congressional representation here in the Bay Area, to Senator Feinstein.
And if we reach down to the grassroots within the Bay Area, in the long and illustrious military history there's an enormous amount of support for the project.
Case in point, AOL ran a poll in July on whether or not the Iowa should be in San Francisco. Eighty-nine percent of the responding public said yes. Three weeks ago, a radio station ran a similar poll; 93 percent said yes, the Iowa should be...
HANNITY: What's going to happen, though? Isn't it more likely that this is going to move to Stockton? I mean, Stockton has made such a strong pitch to get this.
STEPHENS: We're doing -- we feel that the ship will be economically viable here. It will be an enormous success. It brings all the many benefits and substantial strengths that the Navy looks for, for a successful memorial museum. San Francisco has a tourist base, has the visibility, has the infrastructure to support this ship. And to honor its veterans in a Navy legacy in a manner that few cities can do.
ALAN COLMES: Hey, Bill, it's Alan in New York. I agree with you. We're going to talk with Mr. Sandoval in a moment from the San Francisco board of supervisors.
I can't believe they would object to this. For one thing they want to make this a statement about the war in Iraq, when this ship honorably served World War II and the Korean War. And we just saw some of the veterans, teary-eyed about their time on this ship.
It's an outrage that they would misrepresent what this -- this piece of military history represents.
STEPHENS: Yes. I concur that the position that the board of supervisors took in July was extremely emotional and was meant to be a statement of their frustration with the Bush administration.
This ship is a symbol of what many call the greatest generation in America ever fielded against a horrible regime, the axis powers. This ship and those veterans that you saw fought to preserve their very rights.
COLMES: Right.
STEPHENS: A debate that the supervisors now currently enjoy. I think they totally missed...
COLMES: Yes, go ahead.
STEPHENS: I think they totally misread this position, and the feeling of the Bay Area population, which has been supporting the ship, their own constituents, and the nation as a whole. This ship is the statement of some of the best values this nation has ever put forward. And I think that they need to re-evaluate their position. The financial arguments -- go ahead.
COLMES: It's a mistake to say that, because you may not agree with the Iraq war, you're anti -- this gives a very anti-military message.
And as Sean pointed out, Dianne Feinstein believes she has a commitment to keep this ship at least in California. But it would be a shame for it not to be, whereas you point out where it could really get great visibility in the city of San Francisco.
STEPHENS: Absolutely. More Americans -- most Americans that come to San Francisco will be able to see the ship. It serves as a control platform in case of emergency. It will fund a port. Millions of dollars over the term of years to rebuild its crumbling infrastructure. It has all the benefits, all the pluses, at no cost.
HANNITY: Thanks for being with us. Keep up the good fight. We wish you all the success in this. And thanks for all you're doing. You're a great American.
STEPHENS: Thank you, Sean. It's a pleasure to be here.
HANNITY: Appreciate it.
And coming up next, I'm going to take on one of the city supervisors who voted down this plan to bring the USS Iowa to San Francisco. That debate coming up next. Stay with us.
Opposition to WWII battleship
HANNITY: As we continue "Hannity & Colmes" from San Francisco tonight, the board of supervisors here overwhelmingly voted to reject a plan last year that would bring the historic World War II Iowa battleship right here to San Francisco harbor, as a museum and tourist center.
We're now joined by one of the supervisors that voted against that plan, Gerardo Sandoval is with us.
Welcome to the show. You just said something to me as we were coming on the air. You don't want a symbol of war in the harbor. Is what you said to me.
GERARDO SANDOVAL, MEMBER OF SAN FRANCISCO BOARD OF SUPERVISORS: That's right.
HANNITY: I guess this is just a difference in philosophy. That symbol of war that beat back the forces of fascism in imperial Japan and Nazism, that's really a symbol of peace. Why would you see it as a symbol of war when it defended liberty and freedom?
SANDOVAL: Well, it did do that. But also, it's a warship and it's got guns on it. It fires things. You know, you can't deny what it is.
San Francisco is where we signed the United Nations charter, the original charter, created the United Nations. There are many, many ways to honor veterans and their sacrifice.
HANNITY: I understand that. But you don't have liberty and freedom unless we win that war.
SANDOVAL: Absolutely.
HANNITY: So in that scene -- well, then why would you dishonor the men that fought on that ship and preserved your freedom? To say what you want to say?
SANDOVAL: We don't want to dishonor them.
HANNITY: Well, you are dishonoring them.
SANDOVAL: We just don't want to put a 10-story gun on the waterfront where everybody is going to be looking at it every single day.
HANNITY: That gun gives you freedom. That gun ensures your liberty. That gun made this world a safer place.
SANDOVAL: But it could be a flag. It could be a statue. It could be many, many different things.
HANNITY: But is war against the Nazis a good thing? Is war against imperial Japan when they attacked Pearl Harbor, is that a good thing?
SANDOVAL: Well, sometimes you have to resort to violence.
HANNITY: No, no, no. Is war -- was war against the Nazis a good thing?
SANDOVAL: Absolutely.
HANNITY: Was war against imperial Japan a good thing?
SANDOVAL: Absolutely. We don't have to put a bomb or a warship right on the waterfront. It's going to be 10 stories tall. You know how tall that is? It's half as big as some of the biggest buildings in San Francisco.
HANNITY: You know something? I guess this is just a philosophical difference. Because you know what? I define peace as the ability to defend ourselves. And you seem to look at that as ship as something negative, not something to be proud of. Not something that gave you a great gift. I don't understand that mentality. Can you explain it to our audience?
SANDOVAL: Well, it's also a fiscal issue not just a symbolic or philosophical.
HANNITY: Yes, hurt that's not the reason. Because a lot of people say it's about money. If I told you the money would be there tomorrow, you would still be against it, wouldn't you?
SANDOVAL: We would still be against it. That's right.
HANNITY: So it's not about money, but you're using it as an excuse.
SANDOVAL: No, no, no. But it's a very real reason. In Oakland right across the bay here, where they brought in the USS -- one of the wood...
HANNITY: Would you have the freedom to vote this way, had we not used that ship, that symbol of war as you call it, if we had not won that war? Would you have the ability to even make this vote without that ship?
SANDOVAL: Things would be very, very different. No doubt. But that does not mean we have to put a warship on our waterfront.
HANNITY: Warship? Why don't you call it a peace ship? The peace ship gave you the liberty to be who you are today?
SANDOVAL: Why don't we paint war symbols on all schools if that's the way you feel? So we can honor their sacrifice.
HANNITY: I rarely agree with Dianne Feinstein. And she even says this is not the San Francisco that I know. This is -- and I guess this is the mentality. Do you think America should unilaterally disarm? Should we give up our weaponry and our war -- our tools of war?
SANDOVAL: You know, that's a very complicated question. But I would say yes, we should. We should invest our money in our kids.
COLMES: This is Alan in New York. Should we not have military?
SANDOVAL: I don't think we should have a military. Absolutely.
COLMES: We shouldn't have a military? Wait a minute. Hold on. The United States should not have a military?
SANDOVAL: What good has it done for us in the last five years? That's right. What good has it done us...
HANNITY: Good grief.
SANDOVAL: ... in the last five years.
COLMES: Gerardo, wait a second.
SANDOVAL: We think about the billions that we're spending in Iraq right now, if we spend it on schools. We should not...
COLMES: The United States should not have a military?
SANDOVAL: That's correct.
COLMES: Are you kidding me?
SANDOVAL: The United States should not have a military. All in all, we would be in much, much, much better shape.
COLMES: You've got to be kidding me. We should have no military, we should have no ability to defend ourselves, we should have no armed forces in this country?
SANDOVAL: Well, we shouldn't have a military that goes abroad and starts wars.
COLMES: You just said we shouldn't have a military. I don't want to give -- I'm speaking out very forcefully to you, because I don't want to give the impression that Democrats hate the military or don't want a military. We may disagree with certain wars, like the ones fought now.
SANDOVAL: No, but you said should we give up.
COLMES: But to say that we shouldn't have a military is absolutely absurd. It's incredible. That's a ridiculous fringe point of view.
HANNITY: That's exactly what I was thinking, Alan. Welcome to San Francisco.
SANDOVAL: If you're saying that we don't have a right to defend ourselves that's different from we shouldn't have a military.
COLMES: What do you want to defend ourselves -- what do you want to defend ourselves with?
SANDOVAL: Well, you got cops. It's called the Coast Guard. There's lots of things different.
COLMES: You want to send cops to defend our shores if we're attacked? You want to send cops overseas if we're attacked? Cops?
SANDOVAL: You want to send people -- you want to send people abroad to start these wars.
COLMES: I don't. Actually, Gerardo, you don't know anything about what I stand for if you can say that. I've been one of the most outspoken people against this administration and the war in Iraq.
But that doesn't mean we as Democrats hate the military or don't want to defend this country. And I'm amaze you could get on national television and say we shouldn't have a military in America?
SANDOVAL: Well, that's the way I think a lot of people feel here in San Francisco.
HANNITY: I've got to tell you, this is a first. You made look Alan look like a hawk.
I'm going to tell you something. If America is attacked, you have no defenses. You have no liberty. You have no freedom. You can't -- you can't think in such a shallow way. You've got to tell me that this is a joke.
SANDOVAL: No, no. Not at all. I think that what you look at where you want America to go, I mean America has got hundreds of years, maybe thousands of years to go.
HANNITY: Without a military, there is no America. Without -- it's not a disagreement. It's a fact.
SANDOVAL: We can imagine an America that someday will not have a military. It might take 1,000 years.
HANNITY: OK. And then when Iran bombs you...
SANDOVAL: But that's what you've got to hope for.
HANNITY: Or when al Qaeda attacks you, what are you going to do?
I'll tell you what. We've got to take a break, and when we come back, we'll have a preview of tomorrow night's big, big show, and that's going to be from San Diego. We'll tell you about that next.
HANNITY: As we continue our very special show tonight from San Francisco, as you see the beautiful skyline behind us.
COLMES: I'd like to make it very clear, Sean. I believe we should have a military. I just want to be very clear about that. It's amazing to me.
HANNITY: And it says a lot about somebody if they make you look like a hawk. I mean, this is a rare moment, an interesting moment in terms of history of the program here.
COLMES: I'm truly astounded. This is a ship, by the way, the USS Iowa, where they want to put a gay exhibit to honor those who have served who happen to be gay.
They want to have a peace conference every year on the ship. It is fully funded.
Dianne Feinstein, who you've actually praised tonight, so I think you've come a little bit towards my side perhaps. But Dianne Feinstein has secured the moneys. So it won't cost the city of San Francisco anything.
HANNITY: Well, that's a good part of it. But it's more important. This is where our freedoms come from.
COLMES: Yes.
HANNITY: And in the minds of some, military is our enemy. Without that military we don't have the right to even speak out.
Well, I was underway this past week and while surfing through Thursday's "Early Bird" I found a Transcript of Wednesday's Hannity and Colmes (which I normally don't watch). Specifically, it was on the segment where the hosts were interviewing a SF Supervisor.
HANNITY & COLMES FOX NEWS CHANNEL
9:30 PM FEBRUARY 14, 2006
SEAN HANNITY: And welcome back for a special edition of "Hannity & Colmes." We're live from San Francisco tonight.
The USS Iowa, displacing 45,000 tons and carrying a crew of almost 7,000 -- I'm sorry, 3,000, was launched as the first battleship of its class in 1942.
Now, in the fall of 1943, the Iowa carried FDR to and from the Tehran conference with Churchill and Stalin. The ship earned nine battle stars for World War II service and served as the flagship during the surrender of the Japanese in 1945.
The Iowa was recommissioned for battle in the Korean War and once again in 1984 by President Ronald Reagan. Since 2001, the Iowa has been in mothballs.
Veterans and local politicians campaigned to bring it to San Francisco as a navel history museum and memorial. But this summer the board of supervisors voted 8-3 against that plan. Their reasons span from the military's policy towards gays to disapproval with the war in Iraq, to fears that the Iowa would cost the city too much money.
Earlier today we took a tour of the USS Iowa with some of the veterans who are still fighting to restore her to her former glory.
HANNITY: And earlier today I visited the proposed site where her supporters would like the USS Iowa to be installed as a memorial and museum, and I spoke with Merilyn Wong, who...
HANNITY: ... was president of the historic San Francisco stadium. When Barry Bonds was hitting home runs people were in that waterway there, waiting for the ball to come over, right?
WONG, WORKING TOWARDS IOWA MUSEUM: Exactly. They're waiting for that home run or that grand slam.
HANNITY: Yes. All right. This is Willie McCovey. They've got a statue for him. And of course, when he was playing Willie Mays was a big part of the team back then. We have a more pressing issue here, the USS Iowa. Tell us what you're doing and what you've been working on here.
WONG: We are talking about bringing another yet San Francisco giant to the San Francisco waterfront. And by that I mean bringing one of our nation's most historic and charismatic ships and placing her in one of the most visited city's waterfronts to serve in a new and dignified role as a museum, a memorial, even a possible emergency command center, and a platform for conflict resolution.
HANNITY: If we could just sort of pan over here, because it's just on this other side over here. Right where that barge is, is the location where the Iowa would have been docked. It would have been open and accessible. As we see it's very centrally located to a lot of people that we're visiting here. Is that it?
WONG: Yes. That's one of four potential sites that we have engineered to place this ship. And it's a wonderful locale. Think about it. Baseball, hot dogs, apple pie and the USS Iowa.
I mean, this ship was present at some of the most defining moments in American and world history. She speaks freedom. She is the stuff -- just like baseball -- of which America was made, a free nation was made.
HANNITY: Is there still a fighting chance or is this battle lost now because of the supervisors? Does this now -- does the USS Iowa go to Stockton?
WONG: Well, fortunately, the Iowa congressional delegation, teaming up with the Bay Area congressional delegation, did successfully maintain our right to compete for this ship. That is consistent with Navy policy for donation of historic vessels.
HANNITY: Right.
WONG: So insofar as Stockton, they have the right to compete just as much as we do. And still...
HANNITY: But they seem very aggressive, and the supervisors did go 8- 3 against. And they don't seem to have the plan that Stockton had put in place. Very aggressively fighting for this.
WONG: There's still a chance. The only limit to our realization of this goal is really our doubts of today. And we're moving forward with strong and active faith. (END VIDEOTAPE)
Support for WWII battleship
HANNITY: And joining us now is one of the leaders of the fight to bring the USS Iowa to San Francisco. The director of the Historic Ships Memorial of Pacific Square, Bill Stephens, is with us.
By the way, if I really wanted to be cold I could have stayed in New York, you know. I didn't expect it was going to be this bad.
BILL STEPHENS, HISTORIC SHIPS MEMORIAL: Yes. Well, it's one of our more unusual weather fronts moving in.
HANNITY: It is. But I'll tell you, what a beautiful skyline behind us here.
It's almost unimaginable when you look at the history of the Iowa, and what an important role it's played in the defense of liberty and freedom, for the excuses that people have made to prevent it from docking here in San Francisco. Give us a brief history of where we are in this battle.
STEPHENS: Well, right now we're in the process of being before the board of supervisors with a new resolution that will address their concerns. And we feel that this approach will mitigate their -- their position enough so that they can accept the project in its entirety. It's a wonderful project for the Bay Area.
HANNITY: It really is. Look, and to her credit, even Dianne Feinstein -- this isn't, you know, the typical -- or quintessential liberal versus conservative. I mean, Dianne Feinstein got the money to bring it here, has been frankly disgusted at the way that this has been treated.
Is this just thumbing the nose at the military? Is there a big, strong anti-military sentiment behind all this?
STEPHENS: Sean, the span of support for the Iowa extends all the way from Congresswoman Barbara Lee through the Democratic congressional representation here in the Bay Area, to Senator Feinstein.
And if we reach down to the grassroots within the Bay Area, in the long and illustrious military history there's an enormous amount of support for the project.
Case in point, AOL ran a poll in July on whether or not the Iowa should be in San Francisco. Eighty-nine percent of the responding public said yes. Three weeks ago, a radio station ran a similar poll; 93 percent said yes, the Iowa should be...
HANNITY: What's going to happen, though? Isn't it more likely that this is going to move to Stockton? I mean, Stockton has made such a strong pitch to get this.
STEPHENS: We're doing -- we feel that the ship will be economically viable here. It will be an enormous success. It brings all the many benefits and substantial strengths that the Navy looks for, for a successful memorial museum. San Francisco has a tourist base, has the visibility, has the infrastructure to support this ship. And to honor its veterans in a Navy legacy in a manner that few cities can do.
ALAN COLMES: Hey, Bill, it's Alan in New York. I agree with you. We're going to talk with Mr. Sandoval in a moment from the San Francisco board of supervisors.
I can't believe they would object to this. For one thing they want to make this a statement about the war in Iraq, when this ship honorably served World War II and the Korean War. And we just saw some of the veterans, teary-eyed about their time on this ship.
It's an outrage that they would misrepresent what this -- this piece of military history represents.
STEPHENS: Yes. I concur that the position that the board of supervisors took in July was extremely emotional and was meant to be a statement of their frustration with the Bush administration.
This ship is a symbol of what many call the greatest generation in America ever fielded against a horrible regime, the axis powers. This ship and those veterans that you saw fought to preserve their very rights.
COLMES: Right.
STEPHENS: A debate that the supervisors now currently enjoy. I think they totally missed...
COLMES: Yes, go ahead.
STEPHENS: I think they totally misread this position, and the feeling of the Bay Area population, which has been supporting the ship, their own constituents, and the nation as a whole. This ship is the statement of some of the best values this nation has ever put forward. And I think that they need to re-evaluate their position. The financial arguments -- go ahead.
COLMES: It's a mistake to say that, because you may not agree with the Iraq war, you're anti -- this gives a very anti-military message.
And as Sean pointed out, Dianne Feinstein believes she has a commitment to keep this ship at least in California. But it would be a shame for it not to be, whereas you point out where it could really get great visibility in the city of San Francisco.
STEPHENS: Absolutely. More Americans -- most Americans that come to San Francisco will be able to see the ship. It serves as a control platform in case of emergency. It will fund a port. Millions of dollars over the term of years to rebuild its crumbling infrastructure. It has all the benefits, all the pluses, at no cost.
HANNITY: Thanks for being with us. Keep up the good fight. We wish you all the success in this. And thanks for all you're doing. You're a great American.
STEPHENS: Thank you, Sean. It's a pleasure to be here.
HANNITY: Appreciate it.
And coming up next, I'm going to take on one of the city supervisors who voted down this plan to bring the USS Iowa to San Francisco. That debate coming up next. Stay with us.
Opposition to WWII battleship
HANNITY: As we continue "Hannity & Colmes" from San Francisco tonight, the board of supervisors here overwhelmingly voted to reject a plan last year that would bring the historic World War II Iowa battleship right here to San Francisco harbor, as a museum and tourist center.
We're now joined by one of the supervisors that voted against that plan, Gerardo Sandoval is with us.
Welcome to the show. You just said something to me as we were coming on the air. You don't want a symbol of war in the harbor. Is what you said to me.
GERARDO SANDOVAL, MEMBER OF SAN FRANCISCO BOARD OF SUPERVISORS: That's right.
HANNITY: I guess this is just a difference in philosophy. That symbol of war that beat back the forces of fascism in imperial Japan and Nazism, that's really a symbol of peace. Why would you see it as a symbol of war when it defended liberty and freedom?
SANDOVAL: Well, it did do that. But also, it's a warship and it's got guns on it. It fires things. You know, you can't deny what it is.
San Francisco is where we signed the United Nations charter, the original charter, created the United Nations. There are many, many ways to honor veterans and their sacrifice.
HANNITY: I understand that. But you don't have liberty and freedom unless we win that war.
SANDOVAL: Absolutely.
HANNITY: So in that scene -- well, then why would you dishonor the men that fought on that ship and preserved your freedom? To say what you want to say?
SANDOVAL: We don't want to dishonor them.
HANNITY: Well, you are dishonoring them.
SANDOVAL: We just don't want to put a 10-story gun on the waterfront where everybody is going to be looking at it every single day.
HANNITY: That gun gives you freedom. That gun ensures your liberty. That gun made this world a safer place.
SANDOVAL: But it could be a flag. It could be a statue. It could be many, many different things.
HANNITY: But is war against the Nazis a good thing? Is war against imperial Japan when they attacked Pearl Harbor, is that a good thing?
SANDOVAL: Well, sometimes you have to resort to violence.
HANNITY: No, no, no. Is war -- was war against the Nazis a good thing?
SANDOVAL: Absolutely.
HANNITY: Was war against imperial Japan a good thing?
SANDOVAL: Absolutely. We don't have to put a bomb or a warship right on the waterfront. It's going to be 10 stories tall. You know how tall that is? It's half as big as some of the biggest buildings in San Francisco.
HANNITY: You know something? I guess this is just a philosophical difference. Because you know what? I define peace as the ability to defend ourselves. And you seem to look at that as ship as something negative, not something to be proud of. Not something that gave you a great gift. I don't understand that mentality. Can you explain it to our audience?
SANDOVAL: Well, it's also a fiscal issue not just a symbolic or philosophical.
HANNITY: Yes, hurt that's not the reason. Because a lot of people say it's about money. If I told you the money would be there tomorrow, you would still be against it, wouldn't you?
SANDOVAL: We would still be against it. That's right.
HANNITY: So it's not about money, but you're using it as an excuse.
SANDOVAL: No, no, no. But it's a very real reason. In Oakland right across the bay here, where they brought in the USS -- one of the wood...
HANNITY: Would you have the freedom to vote this way, had we not used that ship, that symbol of war as you call it, if we had not won that war? Would you have the ability to even make this vote without that ship?
SANDOVAL: Things would be very, very different. No doubt. But that does not mean we have to put a warship on our waterfront.
HANNITY: Warship? Why don't you call it a peace ship? The peace ship gave you the liberty to be who you are today?
SANDOVAL: Why don't we paint war symbols on all schools if that's the way you feel? So we can honor their sacrifice.
HANNITY: I rarely agree with Dianne Feinstein. And she even says this is not the San Francisco that I know. This is -- and I guess this is the mentality. Do you think America should unilaterally disarm? Should we give up our weaponry and our war -- our tools of war?
SANDOVAL: You know, that's a very complicated question. But I would say yes, we should. We should invest our money in our kids.
COLMES: This is Alan in New York. Should we not have military?
SANDOVAL: I don't think we should have a military. Absolutely.
COLMES: We shouldn't have a military? Wait a minute. Hold on. The United States should not have a military?
SANDOVAL: What good has it done for us in the last five years? That's right. What good has it done us...
HANNITY: Good grief.
SANDOVAL: ... in the last five years.
COLMES: Gerardo, wait a second.
SANDOVAL: We think about the billions that we're spending in Iraq right now, if we spend it on schools. We should not...
COLMES: The United States should not have a military?
SANDOVAL: That's correct.
COLMES: Are you kidding me?
SANDOVAL: The United States should not have a military. All in all, we would be in much, much, much better shape.
COLMES: You've got to be kidding me. We should have no military, we should have no ability to defend ourselves, we should have no armed forces in this country?
SANDOVAL: Well, we shouldn't have a military that goes abroad and starts wars.
COLMES: You just said we shouldn't have a military. I don't want to give -- I'm speaking out very forcefully to you, because I don't want to give the impression that Democrats hate the military or don't want a military. We may disagree with certain wars, like the ones fought now.
SANDOVAL: No, but you said should we give up.
COLMES: But to say that we shouldn't have a military is absolutely absurd. It's incredible. That's a ridiculous fringe point of view.
HANNITY: That's exactly what I was thinking, Alan. Welcome to San Francisco.
SANDOVAL: If you're saying that we don't have a right to defend ourselves that's different from we shouldn't have a military.
COLMES: What do you want to defend ourselves -- what do you want to defend ourselves with?
SANDOVAL: Well, you got cops. It's called the Coast Guard. There's lots of things different.
COLMES: You want to send cops to defend our shores if we're attacked? You want to send cops overseas if we're attacked? Cops?
SANDOVAL: You want to send people -- you want to send people abroad to start these wars.
COLMES: I don't. Actually, Gerardo, you don't know anything about what I stand for if you can say that. I've been one of the most outspoken people against this administration and the war in Iraq.
But that doesn't mean we as Democrats hate the military or don't want to defend this country. And I'm amaze you could get on national television and say we shouldn't have a military in America?
SANDOVAL: Well, that's the way I think a lot of people feel here in San Francisco.
HANNITY: I've got to tell you, this is a first. You made look Alan look like a hawk.
I'm going to tell you something. If America is attacked, you have no defenses. You have no liberty. You have no freedom. You can't -- you can't think in such a shallow way. You've got to tell me that this is a joke.
SANDOVAL: No, no. Not at all. I think that what you look at where you want America to go, I mean America has got hundreds of years, maybe thousands of years to go.
HANNITY: Without a military, there is no America. Without -- it's not a disagreement. It's a fact.
SANDOVAL: We can imagine an America that someday will not have a military. It might take 1,000 years.
HANNITY: OK. And then when Iran bombs you...
SANDOVAL: But that's what you've got to hope for.
HANNITY: Or when al Qaeda attacks you, what are you going to do?
I'll tell you what. We've got to take a break, and when we come back, we'll have a preview of tomorrow night's big, big show, and that's going to be from San Diego. We'll tell you about that next.
HANNITY: As we continue our very special show tonight from San Francisco, as you see the beautiful skyline behind us.
COLMES: I'd like to make it very clear, Sean. I believe we should have a military. I just want to be very clear about that. It's amazing to me.
HANNITY: And it says a lot about somebody if they make you look like a hawk. I mean, this is a rare moment, an interesting moment in terms of history of the program here.
COLMES: I'm truly astounded. This is a ship, by the way, the USS Iowa, where they want to put a gay exhibit to honor those who have served who happen to be gay.
They want to have a peace conference every year on the ship. It is fully funded.
Dianne Feinstein, who you've actually praised tonight, so I think you've come a little bit towards my side perhaps. But Dianne Feinstein has secured the moneys. So it won't cost the city of San Francisco anything.
HANNITY: Well, that's a good part of it. But it's more important. This is where our freedoms come from.
COLMES: Yes.
HANNITY: And in the minds of some, military is our enemy. Without that military we don't have the right to even speak out.
Comment