Denmark über alles

[Gangerolf]

My impression is they're not sane, but not racist either.

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by Zoid
Hey, I´m just excersising my right to free speech here. It´s not my problem if you´re too sensitive, Winston. And Denmark can burn for all I care, you put yourself in this situation and now you can´t handle it, tough ****. What the **** did you expect? You honestly thought you could get away with honking off the whole muslim world?

It was JP that put denmark in this heat, but there aren't really any handling problem. Not one party from left to right thinks that it is handled wrongly -some politicans may say that it wasn't the smartest think done by JP, one of them Uffe Ellemann , but none has questioned if they were allowed to do it, and all backs up on JP on that.

Just a question : do you think it's just ok that the whole muslim world descides what can be done in denmark ? or are they allowed to honk danes ?

[Zoid]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


I dont know if your statement about JPs motives is correct or not. In either case I dont see how it justifies "You honestly thought you could get away with honking off the whole muslim world? "

Guilt by association. Its the same thing whether its a racist blaming muslims in general for the actions of some or EVEN OF MANY muslims, or blaming Danes in general for the sentiments of a few.

I said that the danish society has strong undercurrents of islamophobia, not that all danes are racists.

[lord of the mark]

Heres what you said

Originally posted by Zoid
Hey, I´m just excersising my right to free speech here. It´s not my problem if you´re too sensitive, Winston. And Denmark can burn for all I care, you put yourself in this situation and now you can´t handle it, tough ****. What the **** did you expect? You honestly thought you could get away with honking off the whole muslim world?

[lord of the mark]

"7. februar 2006

Jyllands-Posten´s caricatures of Muhammed have in the last week developed into a serious crisis between Denmark and the Arab/Moslem world.

We have seen everything from boycott of Danish goods and businesses, Danish embassies and consulates being burned to the ground, official protests, demonstrations in Baghdad, threats against our police in Gaza and the Danish flag being burned. It has developed into nothing less than an international crisis, which may have grave consequences in many years to come.

The position of the Social Democrats is clear:

- Freedom of speech is not open for discussion; it is an essential foundation of our democratic society that should not be questioned.
- The government of Denmark cannot officially apologies the caricatures of an article of a private newspaper, but denounce the consequences which the caricatures have caused. Dialogue is the only way of hindering the conflict from escalating.
- Both the Danish Imams and the governments affected by the case should cooperate in order to stop the disorder. Not much remains to do for the Danish government but to continue the dialogue.
- The governments of the Middle East have a large responsibility of fighting the disorder. They must be helpful in securing Danes a safe exit from Syria and Lebanon and they must protect Danish representations. Other Arab governments should also appeal for consideration in this very problematic situation.
- All parts should support diplomatic measures of solving the conflict.

A continued dialogue to promote solutions – both internationally but also in the private sphere – the talk that every citizen can have with his or her family, friends and colleagues is pivotal in order to solve this serious conflict."


Lotte Bundsgaard
Political Spokesperson for the Social Democrats


Danish SDs

[Zoid]

Originally posted by BlackCat


It was JP that put denmark in this heat, but there aren't really any handling problem. Not one party from left to right thinks that it is handled wrongly -some politicans may say that it wasn't the smartest think done by JP, one of them Uffe Ellemann , but none has questioned if they were allowed to do it, and all backs up on JP on that.

Just a question : do you think it's just ok that the whole muslim world descides what can be done in denmark ? or are they allowed to honk danes ?

I´m just saying that the reason for publishing has little to do with freedom of speech and more to do with pepetuating ethnic and religious stereotypes. What do you think would´ve happened if JP had published caricatures of the classic jew as greedy and monstrous. These pics were "ok" in the 30´s and early 40´s, when there was massive antisemitic winds blowing over Europe. Wold you have supported JP if they did that? This could also be masked as "free speech"...

[Zoid]

Originally posted by lord of the mark
Heres what you said

Well, that was said in response to Winstons whining about Denmark being on the edge of the abyss and all that.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Zoid


I´m just saying that the reason for publishing has little to do with freedom of speech and more to do with pepetuating ethnic and religious stereotypes. What do you think would´ve happened if JP had published caricatures of the classic jew as greedy and monstrous. These pics were "ok" in the 30´s and early 40´s, when there was massive antisemitic winds blowing over Europe. Wold you have supported JP if they did that? This could also be masked as "free speech"...

http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/683419.html

Free speech

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Zoid


Well, that was said in response to Winstons whining about Denmark being on the edge of the abyss and all that.

So Winston said something you didnt like, and you responded with statements that grouped all Danese as responsible for the cartoons.


A muslim killed theo Van gogh, some muslims have made death threats against Hirs Ali that have forced her to keep security guards, and some muslims have made threats that cause illustrators to be afraid to illustrate a book on mohammed. So JP posts 13 cartoons, of which 2 associate mohammed with terrorism.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Zoid


I´m just saying that the reason for publishing has little to do with freedom of speech and more to do with pepetuating ethnic and religious stereotypes. What do you think would´ve happened if JP had published caricatures of the classic jew as greedy and monstrous. These pics were "ok" in the 30´s and early 40´s, when there was massive antisemitic winds blowing over Europe. Wold you have supported JP if they did that? This could also be masked as "free speech"...

In the 30s and 40s most jews were too busy trying figure out how to save their coreligionists lives and get them out of Europe, to worry all that much about cartoons. Is that where things stand in Denmark?

Of the 13 cartoons, most were respectful, and one actually mocked JP and its contest. Can you find me a Nazi paper that published cartoons about Jews that were comparable, including respectful ones as well as hostile ones? Or that mocked antisemitic cartoons?

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by Zoid


I´m just saying that the reason for publishing has little to do with freedom of speech and more to do with pepetuating ethnic and religious stereotypes. What do you think would´ve happened if JP had published caricatures of the classic jew as greedy and monstrous. These pics were "ok" in the 30´s and early 40´s, when there was massive antisemitic winds blowing over Europe. Wold you have supported JP if they did that? This could also be masked as "free speech"...

That is just so much a BS comaparison that it must be awarded as one of the most foolish made in 2006.

You only see the "bomb in the turban" pic and ignore the rest. You don't see the cartoonist that worriedly looks back drawing a pic of mohammed; you don't see the one saying they are running out of virgins because there are too many suicide bombers, and you totally ignore the difference between satirical drawings that are trying to depict a common belief and redicule it and propaganda that are meant to inflict animosity and hatred.

[BlackCat]

LOTM - JP only printed 12 - not 13

[Zoid]

But if the distinction was clear from the beginning that some drawings could be considered offensive why publish them? And why not admit that it was a mistake when the **** hit the fan? Instead of claiming that the publishing served some form of higher purpose? As BC says above there was a obvious difference between satire and anti-muslim propaganda in the 13 drawings...

[Thue]

Originally posted by Zoid


I´m just saying that the reason for publishing has little to do with freedom of speech and more to do with pepetuating ethnic and religious stereotypes. What do you think would´ve happened if JP had published caricatures of the classic jew as greedy and monstrous. These pics were "ok" in the 30´s and early 40´s, when there was massive antisemitic winds blowing over Europe. Wold you have supported JP if they did that? This could also be masked as "free speech"...

They were printet in response to death threads against cartonists who wanted to draw cartoons of Muhammad for a childrens book. They have everything to do with freedom of speech.

The one with the bomb in the turban was a bad idea, but taken as a whole they were not that bad.

Just as a note, I have seen several examples mentions of muslims depicting Muhammad, so the rule that muhammad must not be depicted seems to be merely an opinion.

Please also remember the rescue of the Danish Jews in World War II, where so many other nations were only too happy to help the Nazis. Though there are exceptions, overall Danes are not racist IMO.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Zoid
But if the distinction was clear from the beginning that some drawings could be considered offensive why publish them?

maybe cause JP was serious about the free speech issue, and wanted to publish them all, including the one that could be considered offensive?