ID card bill passes

[Sandman]

The burden of proof is on the pro-ID people - saying it's the same as CCTV is not an argument in favour of it. You have to justify the cost (which has every probability of spiralling) by pointing out, you know, benefits.

[reds4ever]

Wouldn't it be cheaper to just make Muslims carry them?

[Dauphin]

How is the ID card better than a passport? And how is it harder to forge?

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Sandman
The burden of proof is on the pro-ID people - saying it's the same as CCTV is not an argument in favour of it.

I'm not in favour of it. But I think you have a much worse problem with your CCTV than with ID cards.

However, the misunderstanding between the Brits and the continentals probably also comes with what mandatory IDs in Britain entail: much personal data of yours, including biometric data, will be stored in police databases. For a continental, an ID is a paper that you carry and that is useful with administrations, and it doesn't go beyond that, à la driver's licence. For a Brit, registering for ID also means giving up plenty of privacy to the police's databases. And this is quite a different approach.

[Dauphin]

Are you against CCTV in general, or specific uses of it?

e.g a private company using them in and in front of its stores; a company or government body using them on a bus or train carriage; by an organisation to monitor traffic levels on major roads; a council monitoring the market or square; a shopping centre monitoring the precinct; a school to protect its students from bullies in the playground.

[Dauphin]

On the ID card issue, I wonder what would happen if enough people refuse to get an ID card or refuse to pay for one.

[Sandman]

Originally posted by Spiffor

I'm not in favour of it. But I think you have a much worse problem with your CCTV than with ID cards.

However, the misunderstanding between the Brits and the continentals probably also comes with what mandatory IDs in Britain entail: much personal data of yours, including biometric data, will be stored in police databases. For a continental, an ID is a paper that you carry and that is useful with administrations, and it doesn't go beyond that, à la driver's licence. For a Brit, registering for ID also means giving up plenty of privacy to the police's databases. And this is quite a different approach.

It won't be stored in police databases - it'll be stored in a single, central government database. Available to all government departments (including the police) and probably private companies as well.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Dauphin
Are you against CCTV in general, or specific uses of it?

I'm against storing data about people withotu their specific approval. I could live with CCTV footage being stored for 3 days before being deleted (so that it serves as evidence in clear-cut cases). But to have mountains of data that is stored for unknown periods of time, it's just Stalin's wet dream come true.

This is also why I'm against the British ID: because personal data will be stored in a database, and you won't have any control on it. If it had been just a piece of paper on which you had permanent control over (like the way they were on the continent), I wouldn't find anything wrong with a paper that authoritatively proves your identity.

[Colonâ„¢]

What about birth, death and marriage registers then?

[Az]

I'm against storing data about people withotu their specific approval.

Ok, that's crack territory.

[Snotty]

I dont mind an ID card as some sort of updated passport, but if they expect me to carry it on the street then they can go **** themselves

[alva]

It's not like it weighs 20 pounds and is taped to your forhead.

[Az]

precisely. It's not an actual impediment to your everyday life.

I don't know of IDs are mandatory in Israel, btw. I don't walk my dog with them, or stuff. ( I don't carry it, anyway, the Driver's license is enough)

[Snotty]

Its yet another peice of junk I need to remember when I leave the house.

Im all for chavs having to carry them, but unfortunately its bad form to single out the trash, so best we have to settle for no-one having them

[Datajack Franit]

Has someone hacked your account? What happened to "PRAISE ALLLAAAH!"

Basically, the purpose of ID cards is:

-police spots someone suspicious
-police asks for ID card and real-time checks national database

if you don't have it and you're an illegal foreigner:

-police takes you to immigration center where you receive an expatriation order, and if they catch you again you're arrested and deported on your expenses

if you have it

-police see you just escaped prison
-BANG BANG!