Home schooling

[Shi Huangdi]

(AND keep your kid from being a creepy social reject!)

You obviously don't know too many people who were homeschooled...

How sucsessful homeschooling is depends a lot on how well it is done. I saw one homeschooled family on some Reality TV program one time that only educated their kids 3 hours a day, and was done by the mother with no outside assistance, and for all age levels. If it is done well, alot of effort is put into it, a homeschooled kid can succeed. If it is done poorly, it can fail in a spectacular fashion.

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
I knew someone who should have been in my grade who was a prostitute shooting up heroin at age 14. This isn't some scary inner city school, this was a scary rural school (and a known bad one.. but still).

And you think this kid would have been better off had she been homeschooled? Where were her parents when she was doing these things? Those activites reek of problems at home, problems that would have manifested no matter where this child attended school. The influence of public school cannot be the sole reason for this.

I went through a rural public school system. It wasn't the greatest in the world, and I am sure that I would have had a more enriching experience had I been able to go to the good private schools or the public magnet schools available in urban areas. However, I left the system with a pretty good education, and I was more than able to hold my own during undergrad when pitted against those from better school systems. As with most things in life, the more students at public schools put into their education, the more they'll get out of it. Involved, caring parents have as much to do with success as other factors. True, there are some terrible public schools, but I think that much of the complaining about public schools comes from parents whose children didn't make an effort to learn. These parents choose to blame the schools rather than their children.

[Jon Miller]

I agree that she would ahve still had problems. But a lot of kids whose parents seemed 'decent' were having issues with pot and alcohol at 10 or younger.

When people arround you are doing negative things (and drug use at that age is..) then you aren't as equiped to handle them at 10 or 8 as you are at 20. Now I know that problems relating to alcohol and drugs come in at highschool, but even a 16 year old is far better equiped to handle sex, alcohol, and drugs then a 12 year old.

In my senior class, only one other person graduated college 4 years later. My school had the highest pregnancy rate in Oregon some years. 30% of students had used hard drugs (of the highschool). Also, many students were beat up or forced to 'push the penny' (push a penny arround a dirty toilet bowl with your tongue) if you want non sex/drug related issues.

Yes, you can be a success after that. But that isn't an environment that promotes success. Some kid could be a success with no access to education at all, but we as society mostly recognise that education aids people in being successes. While your environment is not the only factor, it is arguably the largest one, and school makes up the majority of your environment for a large number of impressionable years.

Jon Miller

[Jon Miller]

Denying the power of environment in shaping who you are seems just blind....

Jon Miller

[Wycoff]

That sounds pretty hellish... definately nothing like my experience.

Widespread alcohol and drug problems at 10?

I don't know, Jon, that sounds like an exaggeration...

[Jaguar]

Originally posted by mrmitchell


It's different today as I already outlined in my first post, but the myth originated from the facts. Modern home schooling started as a way for fundamentalist nutjobs to save their children from the public schools that had become instruments of godless Athiesm over the 1970s and 80s, at the very least in Arkansas if not the rest of the nation.

In the attached chart you will see that:

38% of home school parents cite religious reasons for their choice
15%, "to develop character/morality"
12%, "Object to what school teaches" ("I am a nut that opposes school taught evolution but I dont want to look like a nut in this survey")
Which is about 65% - reasons that have nothing to do with existing public schools unless they are of the "THEY ARE TOOLS OF THE DEVIL" type.

The total numbers go way over 100 percent, so obviously they're listing multiple reasons. I bet that many of the people who cite one of those reasons also cite one or more of the others.

It doesn't detract from your overall point that many of the homeschoolers are nuts, though.

[Jon Miller]

From his table I would say 12% are probably nuts, and another 26% might be nuts.

I guess that is still many.

Jon Miller

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Wycoff
That sounds pretty hellish... definately nothing like my experience.

Widespread alcohol and drug problems at 10?

I don't know, Jon, that sounds like an exaggeration...

Well, it depends on what you mean by widespread. Was it up to 90% (like in highschool)? No. Was there are significant number of users.. yes.

Did I, when I was a senior in highschool who was anti-social, know many drug/alcohol abusers who were in junior high... yes. If I knew (and I mean saw) a decent percentage use drugs/acohol and I didn't even know a majority of the class, and if my siblings who were younger then me are to be beleived (which I do), then yes, it was a significant problem.

JM

[mrmitchell]

Originally posted by Jon Miller


How about those who want to keep their children from being in an environment where pot use is rampant in middle school, sex is rampant in junior high, and less then 50% of students graduate highschool in 4 years?

There are serious 'Christian'/Morality/etc issues without going into the realm of 'wacky' or 'nut'.

I knew someone who should have been in my grade who was a prostitute shooting up heroin at age 14. This isn't some scary inner city school, this was a scary rural school (and a known bad one.. but still).

There are serious reasons why parents can not want their child in a school, and I don't think you are being fair to them.

Jon Miller

What you list would go under "bad learning environment at school" or such. Not any of the three that I mentioned.

I knew someone who should have been in my grade who was a prostitute shooting up heroin at age 14. This isn't some scary inner city school, this was a scary rural school (and a known bad one.. but still).

This kid's parents were obviously not around and therefore homeschooling would not have helped or even been possible for her.

You obviously don't know too many people who were homeschooled...

I know plenty. We all have different experiences, and this is anecdotal evidence, so go ahead and toss it out if you can provide better statistics...

The majority of those homeschooled that I personally know have difficulties in what would seem like normal social interactions.

P.S. In my rush, I didn't realize the poll I attatched above was multiple choice (since the figures all add up to over 100%) but AT LEAST 38.4% of parents are doing it for religious reasons. My bad.

[Jaguar]

I know a girl who was homeschooled out to 9th grade. Her dad makes a living as a tutor for rich kids who flunk out of private schools and such (good money where I live) so he was a very competent teacher and she's doing quite well in high school.

OTOH, there are definitely some nutcases too.

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
Denying the power of environment in shaping who you are seems just blind....

Jon Miller

I'm not denying the power of the environment... I just think that the anti-public school people tend to exaggerate (propagandize?) the horrors of public schools. Any child having drug and alcohol problems at the age of 8 has terrible parents. Parenting has at least as much of an effect as school environment. I know hundreds of relatively well adjusted, successful products of public schools. I know some losers too, but most of them also had bad parents.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by mrmitchell


What you list would go under "bad learning environment at school" or such. Not any of the three that I mentioned.

Depends on the parents prospective. I know homeschoolers for religious reasons. They would say that they homeschool for religious reasons, and would talk about drugs and sex and violence, not biology.

This kid's parents were obviously not around and therefore homeschooling would not have helped or even been possible for her.

No, unfortunately her father supported her in her drug abuse (and probably in her other self abusing decisions (her sisters weren't prostitutes, to my knowledge, at that age, although they were sexually active)).

I know plenty. We all have different experiences, and this is anecdotal evidence, so go ahead and toss it out if you can provide better statistics...

The majority of those homeschooled that I personally know have difficulties in what would seem like normal social interactions.

P.S. In my rush, I didn't realize the poll I attatched above was multiple choice (since the figures all add up to over 100%) but AT LEAST 38.4% of parents are doing it for religious reasons. My bad.

Note that I didn't deny that homeschooling definitely seems to aid in developing social interaction problems. Which isn't aided by the fact that it is often done by families who limit the social interaction of their kids anyways.

It seems to be done better now days, then it was during the 80s, with many homeschoolers getting together and providing alternate socialization.

I think any school can be good if done right. There are deffinitely many fine public schools, and many fine private schools. But private tutor/homeschool can do well also if done properly, and at times might be the best option.

Jon Miller

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Wycoff


I'm not denying the power of the environment... I just think that the anti-public school people tend to exaggerate (propagandize?) the horrors of public schools. Any child having drug and alcohol problems at the age of 8 has terrible parents. Parenting has at least as much of an effect as school environment. I know hundreds of relatively well adjusted, successful products of public schools. I know some losers, too, but most of them also had bad parents.

If almost ever kid is having trouble, then it probably is the environment at school in addition to the one at home.

Now yes, parently has a huge effect. And there were many terrible parents in my home town. But I don't think that almost every one was terrible (every single one by many standards).

Jon Miller

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by Jon Miller


If almost ever kid is having trouble, then it probably is the environment at school in addition to the one at home.

Now yes, parently has a huge effect. And there were many terrible parents in my home town. But I don't think that almost every one was terrible (every single one by many standards).

Jon Miller

It sure sounds like they were... loser parents tend to raise loser kids.

[Jon Miller]

Many seemed OK, especially compared to other parents whose kids did just fine in other school systems.

Jon Miller