Guardian: Bush planned for war all along. & knew it was unlikely there were WMDs.

[Sandman]

Moaning about the Guardian is so 2002. What recent articles have attracted your ire, Arrian?

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by Arrian
... Hell, even Sweden and Canada have probably done things the shouldn't have done.

-Arrian

QFT

[Arrian]

Recent? Off the top of my head, I can't think of anything in particular. I read it only very occasionally now. I got a damned good idea of what they think of me and my country from 2001-2003.

-Arrian

[rah]

It's like reading molly ives.
If it's cloudy it's bush's fault.
I used to read her every now and then to see what the opposition was saying. Heck, I even agreed with some of her points, but the venom that's present when she does her routine is really over the top and unproffesional. I think a good journalist's goal is to convince the reader of their opinion. In her case, if you already hate bush, you need no convincing so you just suck at the nipple.
If you like Bush or are even neutral about him (if there are any), all the hate she spews along with trying to make her point make you turn a deaf ear to her arguements. SOO far that I really have problems reading her columns anymore. She has lost her ability to reach people that she would like to convince to see her point.

This type of style is similar to the guardian. They have ceased to be journalists in my opinion and just pander hate to those that already hate.

You have to pretend to agree with a person sometimes if you expect to seduce them.

[Arrian]

See, now, I hate Bush and I still couldn't stand the Guardian. It's not that they were anti-Bush... I can handle that just fine (and could even if I liked Bush). It went further than that.

-Arrian

[Fake Boris]

Originally posted by Pekka
I think the real points Oerdin made were bolded. That Blair offered his support no matter what, one could say legal or illegal, and that Dubya had some ideas about provoking it using UN as a tool.

Given that Blair actually offered his support even though the war was not sanctioned by the UN, I guess it was evident he and W had agreed on it before.

I think that's something new. Or at least partially new. But one has to consider the source. Guardian. Plus, what Blair said is something normal, you know 'we'll back you up', without things happening yet so I don't see that as something strange.

I don't see anything new. Troops were being deployed as talks went underway. No reasonable person, knowing Bush and his admin, actually expected them to be withdrawn.

THe idea about painting a plane to UN colours and spying and if fired upon, claiming it as an incident, well that's more screwed up. However, it didn't happen, so it was all talk.

It's new, but is it surprising that they could have/did thought/think about it? Hardly. It wouldn't be the first fabricated casus belli from US.

[Sandman]

Originally posted by Arrian
Recent? Off the top of my head, I can't think of anything in particular. I read it only very occasionally now. I got a damned good idea of what they think of me and my country from 2001-2003.

-Arrian

I remember when Oerdin hated the Guardian. Now he's starting threads with one of their articles.

I don't see this 'hate' you're hinting at. Examples?

[Arrian]

Oh, ffs. I'm not going to dig up articles I read years ago to explain why I don't like a newspaper!

It's entirely possible that the Guardian has backed off and is no longer the way I remember it. There are plenty of other newspapers in the world, though, so I'm not exactly holding my breath, waiting for the day when I can read it and enjoy...



I'm sorry I said anything. Yeesh.

-Arrian

[Sandman]

You could just say what you remember.

[Sava]

LOL @ thread

still abusing mrT?





bigots

maybe SLD will again explain how hispanics aren't really a race

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Sandman


I remember when Oerdin hated the Guardian. Now he's starting threads with one of their articles.

I don't see this 'hate' you're hinting at. Examples?

I still think they are a subpar paper however this particular article seemed relavent because it wasn't just the Guardian ****ing off again but instead was based upon a book which claimed insider information.

That means there is something more backing it up then just the typical Guardian anti-American rants.

[Arrian]

Originally posted by Sandman
You could just say what you remember.

Oy. What I said: any chance at a potshot at either the government or the country's culture in general was taken. 9/11 was our own damned fault*, and why wouldn't we just realize that and go away, etc.

I remember reading an article (the subject of which I cannot remember) that had nothing to do with the US in any way... and yet they still snuck in a shot at us. It's amazing to me that someone could miss stuff like that, but it's probably magnified for me only b/c I'm American.

-Arrian

* - as noted many times elsewhere, I do think we had a lot to do with the root causes of 9/11, and that the government's reaction of "we were attacked for absolutely no reason out of the blue!" was... shall we say lacking in nuance. But I really felt the "You had it coming, you damned idiot Americans!" vibe. And again, I'm a New England liberal with family in the UK, who reads international newspapers. It's not like I'm some yokel who can't take minor criticisms of "the greatest nation on Earth"

edit: it's also the incredibly smug tone. It's really irritating. I'm sure it sounds good if one is British and likes to feel superior to the damned fool Americans, though.

[Kidlicious]

Why does that bother you so much Arrian?

[Sandman]

It's amazing to me that someone could miss stuff like that, but it's probably magnified for me only b/c I'm American.

Maybe you should worry about more worrying examples of anti-Americanism.

Beware, Americans! Polmat Alemdar is coming!

[Arrian]

This is being taken as a bigger deal than it really is. I expressed an opinion about the newspaper. I choose to read it only sparingly, due to the fact that I do not like it. It's just a freakin' newspaper, and it's just my freakin' opinion, ok?

I can't believe I've typed all that about this issue. It's not like today hasn't been a busy stressful day at work or anything. Forget it. Forget I said anything about the unimpeachable greatness of Teh Guardian.

-Arrian

p.s. WTF, Sandman, do you work for the Guardian or something?

p.p.s. My use of the word "hate" in connection with the Guardian was a mistake. I use that word a little too loosely sometimes.